Emergency lighting question

[bhamoggy]

might sound a bit stupid but can I break into the permanent live and fit a wago to get an extra feed to fit a new emergency light elsewhere on the circuit?

 

[westward10]

Don't see why not are you also taking the neutral and cpc from the same circuit.

 

[Toneyz]

Is there not other emergency lights on this existing circuit as this PL could be the emergency live feed fed via an existing key test switch?

 

[bhamoggy]

Yes there’s all the wires there in metal trunking.
Layout of the plant room has changed and I want to add another emergency in a new location.
Just thinking rather than draw that feed out and go thru the other lights I could just chop into it, fit the wago and get a new PL

 

[Toneyz]

I think that it is not desirable to have joints especially Y joints in trunking. Is this PL fed from a testing key switch?
Even if it is a Wago.

 

[bhamoggy]

Yep, from the key switch

 

[Yozza19]

I would keep any joints in the fitting or switch

 

[bhamoggy]

So could I have a few feeds coming from the key switch then?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Why can’t you spur from the nearest EM light?

 

[bhamoggy]

Next one is quite a way away and far shorter to the switch if that’s normal to do, be far easier to get to the switch if that’s normal practice when adding another emergency?

 

[D J Sheridan]

Just dropping in on this.
We have had a contractor fit electronic keypad entry systems to the doors of our office (as we are in a communal building) and need clarification on the wiring of said keypad.

When I operate the Key Test Switch to check the Emergency Lighting the keypads power is lost - which in my opinion should not happen as this makes me feel the contractor broke in and powered them up on the key test circuit... so unless I'm mistaken if the keypad goes wrong would this not cause power to go out on emergency light and go into emergency power mode for emergency lighting?
This has been done at 3 other doors too.

Our main door was like it but then we had another contractor in to fit in an electronic signing in/out system with a new keypad entry system... this does not lose power when testing emergency lighting - so feel they knew it was initially wrong and therefore sought out another power source separate from the emergency lighting circuit.

So should all emergency lighting systems be powered separately (except standard lighting as it needs to monitor the power to them) from other consumer units?
Any regulations you can identify for me as I need evidence to offer to our maintenance manager.

Dave

 

[Strima]

Under loss of power the door should unlock, is this the case? This is a safety feature as if the door remains locked under loss of power people would be unable to escape during an emergency.

 

[D J Sheridan]

Under loss of power the door should unlock, is this the case? This is a safety feature as if the door remains locked under loss of power people would be unable to escape during an emergency.

Hi
The door can be opened up manually from the inside (unfortunately the door opens inwards to get out - not final door to building) so this is not the issue.
The issue is nobody can enter the office during a test as the keypad is off and no other way of getting into the office unless banging on the door to be heard for someone to go open the door for them.
Security wise the locks on these doors do not disengage although the new keypad door does. We also have button releases on the new door and not the old ones.

I'm more for wanting to know on the regulations and requirements for powering up other systems via the emergency lighting circuits via the key test switch.

As far as i'm concerned the key test switch should only operate the emergency lighting circuit for test purposes... not also power off other things like keypads.

 

[westward10]

If the emergency lights are non maintained (only illuminated under mains failure) they should be powered from the local general lighting circuit. Maintained emergency lights (illuminated at all times) this is not so critical. What was there first the emergency lighting or the door entry systems.

 

[D J Sheridan]

If the emergency lights are non maintained (only illuminated under mains failure) they should be powered from the local general lighting circuit. Maintained emergency lights (illuminated at all times) this is not so critical. What was there first the emergency lighting or the door entry systems.

Hi
The emergency lighting was there before the keypad system...
The EL is an LED panel fitted about a year ago... all is well when operating normally and on EL mode but just feel it ought not have other systems wired up to it.

 

[westward10]

The issue then is those who took the easy option of taking power for the door entry from the nearest source, an emergency light.

 

[D J Sheridan]

But what i need to know is if this is right or wrong.
I mean there is a mains light switch there too - so why not power the keypad from that instead of the keytest switch?
I feel they have wired the keypad between the keytest switch and the emergency light instead of before the keytest switch... as the keypad goes out when testing the EL system... if wired before the keypad would not be affected.

In my opinion an Emergency Lighting Key Test Switch should only operate the Emergency Lighting system and circuitry... not anything else!

I just need to know from a regulation perspective...

 

[westward10]

It is an unusual situation and BS5266:1 for emergency lighting does not consider it. Attached is the section which makes reference to test facilities.

 

[D J Sheridan]

So this is not really clear...
Only thing it state regarding "...any other electrical equipment that could cause a hazard" - but even that in my case is only a keypad system... and one can operate it manually to get out the premises.
I did read somewhere that "no other electrical system is to be connected to emergency lighting systems" but can't remember where i saw it.

Thanks anyhow - looks like the facilities manager will get his way :-(

 

[GBDamo]

Is the key switch global or does each EL/area have a key switch?

If local it could be a simple case of feed taken from the swiched side and not the feed.

 

[D J Sheridan]

Is the key switch global or does each EL/area have a key switch?

If local it could be a simple case of feed taken from the switched side and not the feed.

Hi,
Unusual set up really.
Each above-door luminaire has it's own separate key test switch and each bank of office ceiling lights has it's own key test switch for the EL system.
It is the above door luminaire key test switch that has the key pad system linked to it - I feel the contractor has connected in the keypad between the key test switch and the EL system as opposed to before the key test switch.

Other issue we have is that one door is such that it is the only initial way into the office in the morning via the keypad (also powered by the key test switch EL circuit) and if this particular key test switch malfunctions then there is no other possible way into the office as all other doors has dead bolts on them until the first person comes in and unlocks all ready for the day.