Employing Staff - a few Q's

[Festerfly]

Due to work increasing substantially, we are looking into employing a couple of members of staff rather then just sub contracting (one of the subbies only works for us exclusively anyhow so we will need to make the switch due to HMRC regs).

My questions are as follows really:-

1. How many hours would be fair to hold someone too per day contractually? (i am thinking of 8am-6pm and then overtime for any additional hours worked evenings/weekends etc)
2. Tools:- The main subbie has his own hand tools but is lacking in power tools and a couple of the more specialised items that an everyday electrician (domestic & light commercial) would use. More often then not, they just use my tools as required but the idea is that i can send them out on their own whilst keeping a full tool quota for myself and the jobs that i attend. I have a tool list that i prepared as a guideline for all subbies to work from/towards etc (some of it borrowed from here) which i am happy to post to see what people think should be allocated to company/employee responsibility etc.
3. i understand that the company supplies PPE but if the staff member damages these items (by accident or carelessness) then who is responsible for replacing this?
4. As above but same for company supplied tools and workwear etc?
5. And the biggie...!!! am i right in understanding that an employed electrician (Jr) would be on a lesser day rate then a Subbie? and if so, what would be a fair guide price for a daily wage (gross) or even per annum based upon a 5 day week?

Thanks in advance.. im trying to sort something out over the next week or so as i have booked myself some office time to try and focus on how to build upon our fast growing business

Cheers

:rockon2:

 

[Megavolt]

1. 8-6 seems fine will that be mon to fri or mon to sat.
2. I pay less if they are having to us my tools
3. I supply three sets of clothing every 12 month. If they want more they pay.
4. If wear and tire no but if there not respecting tools because there not there's charge them for them soon stop breaking them
5. Yes as you then pay there hols ect price is upto you depending how good they are.

Can you post your tool list

 

[Festerfly]

Thanks Elrick for the reply. thats really helpful.

The tool list goes like this... (its just a straightforward cut and paste affair from the ones i gave to the subbies prior to starting..)

Tool List - Requirements
Electrical Screwdrivers in variety of sizes
Re-threading Tool
Utility Knife
Pliers
Side Cutters
Cable shears
Cordless ‘Combi’ drill
SDS+ Drill
SDS+ Bit Assortment
Drill Bit Assortment (inc. Masonry & HSS Bits in variety of sizes)
Masonry chisels
Plasterboard Saw
Hack Saw
Junior Hack Saw
Hole Saw assortment
Wood flat bit assortment
Floorboard lifter/Pry bar
SWA cutter (i.e Kewtechnik)
Adjustable Wrench x 2
Insulated stepladder (3+1steps)
Electrical Continuity tester
Electrical Proving Unit
Cable Rod set
On-site guide (Current edition)
Electricians Guide to the Building Regulations (Current Edition)
Torch/lamp
Dust pan and brush
Vacuum Cleaner
Tape Measure
PPE Equipment (Ear Defenders, Safety Glasses, Protective Footwear)
Personal First-Aid Kit

 

[D Skelton]

How many hours would be fair to hold someone too per day contractually? (i am thinking of 8am-6pm and then overtime for any additional hours worked evenings/weekends etc)

As many as you like. I expect mine to work 8am - 5pm Mon - Fri (not including whoever is on callout rota). When the work is light there will often be early finishes and long weekends. When the work is heavy they work the hours needed of them, Saturdays and Sundays too if needs must.

The main subbie has his own hand tools but is lacking in power tools and a couple of the more specialised items that an everyday electrician (domestic & light commercial) would use. More often then not, they just use my tools as required but the idea is that i can send them out on their own whilst keeping a full tool quota for myself and the jobs that i attend. I have a tool list that i prepared as a guideline for all subbies to work from/towards etc (some of it borrowed from here) which i am happy to post to see what people think should be allocated to company/employee responsibility etc.

I supply everything, van, hand and power tools, testers etc. They have more than enough to work with but some like to supply their own screwies for example. Their own stuff is their responsibility. The more expensive tools I only have one of; core drill, demo hammer, mitre saw, bender etc...

i understand that the company supplies PPE but if the staff member damages these items (by accident or carelessness) then who is responsible for replacing this?

By accident, you are responsible, by carelessness, it could be argued that they are, but unless you have bombproof clauses in their contracts, you are ultimately responsible. You need to consult a contract law specialist here, none of us here I believe will be qualified enough to provide you with advice on these matters. In my case, if stuff gets lost or damaged then I replace, simple as, but my guys are not clowns, they respect the gear so I know it is taken care of.

As above but same for company supplied tools and workwear etc?

Ditto my last reply.

Workwear wise, I supply uniform (polos, fleeces, jackets and high vizzes). Trousers and boots are their responsibility, kneepads however I have a box of to divvy out as and when.

And the biggie...!!! am i right in understanding that an employed electrician (Jr) would be on a lesser day rate then a Subbie? and if so, what would be a fair guide price for a daily wage (gross) or even per annum based upon a 5 day week?

I'm not massively comfortable detailing the exact arrangements of my payment structure but you'd normally expect a gold card holder to be able to earn anywhere between £25k - £35k depending on company, their experience, contract arrangements and various other factors. I pay my top guy towards the upper end of that scale and the others less (mainly down to quals and experience) but I don't pay overtime, nor do I let any of them keep the vans for personal use. Again, it's all down to you but my advice, when you get a gooden, keep 'em sweet and they're less likely to stray! It also forces them to justify their wage! I gotta be honest, the guys I have working for me are all top blokes, even the labourers, so I look after them!

Good luck, the paperwork alone is the biggest ball ache of adopting PAYE over CIS but once you get your noggin around it there isn't too much to moan about. And remember, you will end up paying towards your staff's NI contributions, so you will be slightly worse off financially in this respect.

One other piece of advice (I have seen far too many companies fail simply by not following this!) Keep enough cash in the bank to pay your staff until the end of their contracts!!!!!! Mess around with your staff and their money and you'll lose the business within a week! Also, when the bigger contracts start coming in and you need to take on temps, get a deposit large enough to cover their wages for a month!

Rule number one I like to call it; Keep your staff sweet above all else including yourself!!!

Best of luck to you buddy!

 

[Megavolt]

Thanks Elrick for the reply. thats really helpful.

The tool list goes like this... (its just a straightforward cut and paste affair from the ones i gave to the subbies prior to starting..)

Tool List - Requirements
Electrical Screwdrivers in variety of sizes
Re-threading Tool
Utility Knife
Pliers
Side Cutters
Cable shears
Cordless ‘Combi’ drill
SDS+ Drill
SDS+ Bit Assortment
Drill Bit Assortment (inc. Masonry & HSS Bits in variety of sizes)
Masonry chisels
Plasterboard Saw
Hack Saw
Junior Hack Saw
Hole Saw assortment
Wood flat bit assortment
Floorboard lifter/Pry bar
SWA cutter (i.e Kewtechnik)
Adjustable Wrench x 2
Insulated stepladder (3+1steps)
Electrical Continuity tester
Electrical Proving Unit
Cable Rod set
On-site guide (Current edition)
Electricians Guide to the Building Regulations (Current Edition)
Torch/lamp
Dust pan and brush
Vacuum Cleaner
Tape Measure
PPE Equipment (Ear Defenders, Safety Glasses, Protective Footwear)
Personal First-Aid Kit

Seems fair and any good subbie should have all of this.

 

[markc123]

You've missed the football question out...

Question 6 - What team do you support? If they answer Leeds United, evict them from the premesis asap. If they say Arsenal or Liverpool...shoot them.

That's the general rule of thumb

 

[pete555]

Seems fair and any good subbie should have all of this.

should they now have torque drivers or are we still working on hand tight and nip hard once

 

[Festerfly]

should they now have torque drivers or are we still working on hand tight and nip hard once

Good question, i was infact looking at some a couple of days ago especially in relation to the newer panel boards & consumer units.

 

[Festerfly]

Seems fair and any good subbie should have all of this.

Thanks for the advice.
However, as an employer, how much of this would/should i be responsible for?

In a garage scenario, the mechanics supply their own tools but in an office, you wouldn't expect a secretary to bring their own stapler?

 

[Hants-Spark]

You've missed the football question out...

Question 6 - What team do you support? If they answer Leeds United, evict them from the premesis asap. If they say Arsenal or Liverpool...shoot them.

That's the general rule of thumb

And what reply would get you a start in your eyes

 

[Silly Sausage]

.......................................................

Rule number one I like to call it; Keep your staff sweet above all else including yourself!!!

WOW, what an attitude!!!
If every employer were like you, the world of employment would be an infinitely better place.

Respect Mr Skelton! :sunny:

 

[D Skelton]

Cheers Archy, I appreciate the comments but I've gotta be honest here. I don't pay my staff well entirely out of the kindness of my own heart, I mean, I'm not a nasty person or owt and I'm generally nice to people, I'm not after slave labour or anything lol. The point I'm trying to make is that I'd happily pay them less if I could get away with it but I have seen many companies fail, and I've witnessed first hand in a previous job role how as soon as a company starts messing around with their staffs wages it's as good as over!

The staff are the spine of a company, without them the company is dead, hence why keeping staff sweet is a top priority to me. Not because I particularly LOVE paying them well, but because I appreciate how me and my company would be nothing without them!

In years to come if something terrible was to happen and I lost the business and was down and out then at least the staff would know they would have a few months to find something else and still be able to pay the mortgage! If ever I took to a new venture, I would like to think that if I started asking around for some help people would be thinking "yeah, I'll help him out, he pays his dues and he doesn't screw people over!". As soon as you get a rep for being a non or a bad payer, that's it, you're screwed!

 

[Megavolt]

should they now have torque drivers or are we still working on hand tight and nip hard once

Deleted wrong post

 

[Megavolt]

Thanks for the advice.
However, as an employer, how much of this would/should i be responsible for?

In a garage scenario, the mechanics supply their own tools but in an office, you wouldn't expect a secretary to bring their own stapler?

PPE and first aid kit