Extractor fan – Is a re-wire change to change timer duration?

[robinsmith30]

This is my first post to seek advice from experts as a non-electrician, as to whether what I am being told is correct.

We have recently been supplied an Xplelair inline extractor fan with timer in our bathroom. The electrician fitted it such that when the bathroom light is switched off, the fan switches off. We have asked for this to be changed such that the timer can be used (i.e. the fan switches off 10 minutes after the light is switched off). We have been told that the fan needs to rewired to do this at our cost.

This sounds a bit suspicious to me. Does such a change typically need re-wiring?

I’ve done a little research, and there only seems to be one wiring diagram shown https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/xpelair-axial-inline-shower-fan-pdf.120361/
However, I’m not an electrician, so seek advice if anyone knows whether the electricians position is reasonable.
Kind regards,

Robin

 

[Hawk81]

It all depends on what cables go to the fan very hard to answer without more info

why are you getting an electrician that you don't trust to do your work??
Or why are people always suspicious of electricians???

 

[Octopus]

This is my first post to seek advice from experts as a non-electrician, as to whether what I am being told is correct.

We have recently been supplied an Xplelair inline extractor fan with timer in our bathroom. The electrician fitted it such that when the bathroom light is switched off, the fan switches off. We have asked for this to be changed such that the timer can be used (i.e. the fan switches off 10 minutes after the light is switched off). We have been told that the fan needs to rewired to do this at our cost.

This sounds a bit suspicious to me. Does such a change typically need re-wiring?

I’ve done a little research, and there only seems to be one wiring diagram shown https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/xpelair-axial-inline-shower-fan-pdf.120362/
However, I’m not an electrician, so seek advice if anyone knows whether the electricians position is reasonable.
Kind regards,

Robin

What makes you think you have the timer version? There are a number of versions of the fan.

 

[robinsmith30]

Hi guys,

Thank you for your prompt response. The reason I think I have the timer version, and the reason I am suspicious is that the written quote lists the following line item
1 Xpelair Fan White
Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer
So I think it is reasonable to ask the question

 

[Richard Burns]

You will note on the link you give that there are two wiring diagrams shown on page 3, the top one is for non timer fan and the bottom one for the timer fan.
The timer fan would need a permanent line and if that was not installed at the time then it would need a new cable.
If you agreed originally to have just an on off fan in line with the light and the electrician did this, he would not have needed to supply a permanent line.

 

[Octopus]

Hi guys,

Thank you for your prompt response. The reason I think I have the timer version, and the reason I am suspicious is that the written quote lists the following line item
1 Xpelair Fan White
Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer
So I think it is reasonable to ask the question

Can you easily access the fan and see what the model number is? Maybe they bought the wrong one!

 

[robinsmith30]

Thank you for the follow up questions. Our specification detailed Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer. The electrician has not told us they have fitted the wrong fan, they have said they need to re-wire the existing fan (at our cost) to make the fan timer work.

 

[Octopus]

Thank you for the follow up questions. Our specification detailed Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer. The electrician has not told us they have fitted the wrong fan, they have said they need to re-wire the existing fan (at our cost) to make the fan timer work.

If they have quote and invoiced for a timer with fan, and it doesn't operate with a timer over run, then they need to come back and rectify the situation at THEIR cost. IMHO

 

[markythesparky]

Extractor fan – Is a re-wire change to change timer duration?

If your sparks has quoted for a timer fan I would have liked to think that he had looked at the wiring first. Did he?

You need three cable for a timer fan, permanent live, neutral, and switch live from light. If the existing wiring doesn't have this then the fan will only come on and off with the light.

I bet he didn't check the wiring first. But either way if he had and it wasn't correct, and you wanted the timer fan, then he would still have to rewire this cable. So you would still have to pay for it.

 

[paul_h]

Sounds to me like the electrician is telling the truth.....

 

[Johnuk]

get back the person who fitted it to correct the prob, as u said u wanted a time fan

 

[robinsmith30]

This was an installation of a brand new en-suite which included new lights and "Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer". The functionality we now have is not in line with the quotation. So if the electrician has wired it up in way in which the timer does not work, is this our fault? We don't see why we should pay for this to be rectified. This has only come to light as immediately after fitting we asked for timer to be adjusted.

 

[telectrix]

all bolis down to what was quoted for by the spark. if he had quoted to fit a timer overrun fan, then it's his problem if he's not wired it correctly. if he quoted just to fit the fan to run with the light, then it's your responsibility to pay for the extra wiring involved.

 

[markythesparky]

Extractor fan – Is a re-wire change to change timer duration?

Oh oh oh. Sorry I didn't realise he had done all the wiring. If he's wired all the lights and a new feed to a fan then he is totally in the wrong.

Get him back. If he doesn't come back, complain to his registration body and they will make him.

Apologies for my assumptions.

 

[Hawk81]

This was an installation of a brand new en-suite which included new lights and "Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer". The functionality we now have is not in line with the quotation. So if the electrician has wired it up in way in which the timer does not work, is this our fault? We don't see why we should pay for this to be rectified. This has only come to light as immediately after fitting we asked for timer to be adjusted.

You have now give more info and your op now makes sense. It seems that the spark has not wired it for a timer fan. IMHO it's his problem

 

[Toonlad]

This was an installation of a brand new en-suite which included new lights and "Xplelair Inline Extractor Fan with Timer". The functionality we now have is not in line with the quotation. So if the electrician has wired it up in way in which the timer does not work, is this our fault? We don't see why we should pay for this to be rectified. This has only come to light as immediately after fitting we asked for timer to be adjusted.

Sounds like hes lashed in a twin, and ran away.

Few other things to ponder,,

Fan isolation switch,is the fan protected by a fuse or does it have thermal cutout on it, where you issued a certificate for your electrical work done lights and fan, are your lights compliant to the bathroom zones.

Not trying to make a mountain out of it, but these things need to to be looked into, by any electrician worth his salt.

 

[BrianDB9]

Not wanting to be funny but why would you specify the ventilation - are you a ventilation expert - only jesting ...... it seems easy until you know the truth !

The link is to an Axial fan - i hope there isn't too much ducting as it may not perform if too much.

There are a lot of different things to take into account in selecting the best ventilation solution, you could see Energy Savings trust web site, or study the downloadable Domestic Ventilation Compliance Guide along with Part F of the Building Regulations.

It sounds like you've got a system 1 type installation, For these systems " when installing a fan within a bathroom or wc with no openable window the fan should have a 15 minute over run " and " in rooms with no natural light, the fan should be controlled by the operation of the main light switch within the room."

Is your bathroom door undercut by 10mm above carpet or other finish ?

Has the room got a window ?

Flexi duct used or rigid ?

Generally point of extract should be as far from the internal door as possible to achieve best ventilation, however that may mean you get a short circuit to a window background ventilator (if fitted) or you may just go for above the shower ?

All that said i am teasing a bit - ventilation on new build is now a controlled service and when you see how many installations are actually poorly installed you can see why. How many electricians have an air flow meter to ensure the fan performs ?

PM me with as much detail about job inc sketch of room layout etc and i can provide best solution.

 

[markythesparky]

Not wanting to be funny but why would you specify the ventilation - are you a ventilation expert - only jesting ...... it seems easy until you know the truth !

The link is to an Axial fan - i hope there isn't too much ducting as it may not perform if too much.

There are a lot of different things to take into account in selecting the best ventilation solution, you could see Energy Savings trust web site, or study the downloadable Domestic Ventilation Compliance Guide along with Part F of the Building Regulations.

It sounds like you've got a system 1 type installation, For these systems " when installing a fan within a bathroom or wc with no openable window the fan should " and " in rooms with no natural light, the fan should be controlled by the operation of the main light switch within the room."

Is your bathroom door undercut by 10mm above carpet or other finish ?

Has the room got a window ?

Flexi duct used or rigid ?

Generally point of extract should be as far from the internal door as possible to achieve best ventilation, however that may mean you get a short circuit to a window background ventilator (if fitted) or you may just go for above the shower ?

All that said i am teasing a bit - ventilation on new build is now a controlled service and when you see how many installations are actually poorly installed you can see why. How many electricians have an air flow meter to ensure the fan performs ?

PM me with as much detail about job inc sketch of room layout etc and i can provide best solution.

Bloody hell!!
It's Friday you know! Go grab a pint and relax!

 

[Toonlad]

drinking and typeing --- hes relaxed because hes teasing a bit.

 

[robinsmith30]

Thank you for all the responses. I have a couple of final questions to help clarify my understanding 1) Can a fan with a timer be set to a time of 0 and 2) When installing a fan with a timer, is the wiring the same regardless of the timing being set to 0 or maximum. We are awaiting our certificates for the work. I will check on the matters raised by Toonlad in due course.

 

[telectrix]

yep, friday night, well after beeer o'clock. too much info. chill. take a pill. have a dump and measure your fan's extraction rate. zebedee says time for bed.

 

[BrianDB9]

Bloody hell!!
It's Friday you know! Go grab a pint and relax!

cheers just had to get freakin g n t (yuk) nowt else in as snowed in lol

 

[robinsmith30]

I had a good beer. Thanks for all the good responses guys!

 

[telectrix]

if it's a bathroom with attic above, it's not a mega job to sort. just a cable or 2, a plumber with a half a brain could do it ( if you can find a plumber with half a brain that is.)

 

[markythesparky]

Extractor fan – Is a re-wire change to change timer duration?

Never seems timer fan that could be set to 0.

If you could it would be the same wiring, yes. You would still need a three core and earth cable.

 

[markythesparky]

Extractor fan – Is a re-wire change to change timer duration?

Sorry too much beer!

'Never seen' not 'never seems'.

 

[Richard Burns]

Thank you for all the responses. I have a couple of final questions to help clarify my understanding 1) Can a fan with a timer be set to a time of 0 and 2) When installing a fan with a timer, is the wiring the same regardless of the timing being set to 0 or maximum. We are awaiting our certificates for the work. I will check on the matters raised by Toonlad in due course.

Usual minimum time on a timer fan is about 2 mins, recommended overrun time is 15 mins.

Once the wiring is in place for a timer then there is no difference in the wiring no matter how long you set the timer.

If the fan has its own isolator then the fan can be isolated and then switched on again and the fan will usually stop, handy for the midnight trips to the bathroom without waking any one up, but of course not regulatoraly recommended:smile5:!

 

[Octopus]

Usual minimum time on a timer fan is about 2 mins, recommended overrun time is 15 mins.

Once the wiring is in place for a timer then there is no difference in the wiring no matter how long you set the timer.

If the fan has its own isolator then the fan can be isolated and then switched on again and the fan will usually stop, handy for the midnight trips to the bathroom without waking any one up, but of course not regulatoraly recommended:smile5:!

A good point is raised here, so to the OP, is a 3A fuse fitted and/or is there double pole isolation installed?

 

[Des 56]

If its all tiled in and decorated etc and he only has 2 cores to the fan,perhaps he may be able to fit a transformer (with timer) and swap the fan for a 12 volt

 

[HandySparks]

If its all tiled in and decorated etc and he only has 2 cores to the fan,perhaps he may be able to fit a transformer (with timer) and swap the fan for a 12 volt

No need to change the fan. Just fit a separate timer. Remote Timer 1min to 45 Min

 

[Stroppy]

Ooh I never knew they existed, that's a handy one to get out of some scrapes.

 

[IanHug]

I'd get in the loft and check that they have actually supplied a fan with timer and that their real problem isn't that they've fitted the wrong fan. If the cabling is accessible then the wiring they're talking about only involves a bit of 3+E cable. Be a bit odd for them to fit a fan + timer and not wire it for the timer to work.

If you haven't paid him I wouldn't until it's fixed. If they've fitted the wrong fan then you know that they've lied to you.