Fauna......18month old installation.

[Leesparkykent]

Got a job I completed about 18 months ago.Big 5 bed refurb with multiple extensions so it's a full installation from scratch. Got a call this morning saying RCD won't reset, went through the usual procedure over the phone and get them to leave the circuit breaker off for the circuit in question so they can get the RCD to reset...Went there this afternoon and carried an IR test out on the circuit and it's as flat as a pancake line-earth.... split the circuit in half and still flat as pancake on both legs of the ring final circuit.... only 12 sockets on the circuit so Carry out installation resistance testing until I find the legs with the faults... 1 leg that's down is between 3rd and 4th socket and the other leg that's down is between board and last socket in the order I was testing.

It's a complete nightmare as solid wood flooring down, Laura Ashley wall paper and so on....can't turn it in to a radial because the fault between 3rd and 4th socket so I'm stuck with having to get a new leg in between 3rd and 4th socket and turning it into a radial or getting two new legs in and keeping it as a RFC. Not botherd about loading as only serves a play room, bedroom and hall way socket.

Getting the new leg/legs in is going to be disruptive but unfortunately there is no getting around it. Although it's only 18months old I think I should be charging them....spent an hour there today and I've rearranged jobs for tomorrow so I can get back in there in the morning to sort it out. They clearly have a rodent problem as two legs of a RFC just don't go down all of a sudden after 18months...what's your thoughts?

 

[telectrix]

or possibly faulty cable. i had some SWA . 1 conductor went down (open circuit) after 3 weeks.

 

[Pete999]

Got a job I completed about 18 months ago.Big 5 bed refurb with multiple extensions so it's a full installation from scratch. Got a call this morning saying RCD won't reset, went through the usual procedure over the phone and get them to leave the circuit breaker off for the circuit in question so they can get the RCD to reset...Went there this afternoon and carried an IR test out on the circuit and it's as flat as a pancake line-earth.... split the circuit in half and still flat as pancake on both legs of the ring final circuit.... only 12 sockets on the circuit so Carry out installation resistance testing until I find the legs with the faults... 1 leg that's down is between 3rd and 4th socket and the other leg that's down is between board and last socket in the order I was testing.

It's a complete nightmare as solid wood flooring down, Laura Ashley wall paper and so on....can't turn it in to a radial because the fault between 3rd and 4th socket so I'm stuck with having to get a new leg in between 3rd and 4th socket and turning it into a radial or getting two new legs in and keeping it as a RFC. Not botherd about loading as only serves a play room, bedroom and hall way socket.

Getting the new leg/legs in is going to be disruptive but unfortunately there is no getting around it. Although it's only 18months old I think I should be charging them....spent an hour there today and I've rearranged jobs for tomorrow so I can get back in there in the morning to sort it out. They clearly have a rodent problem as two legs of a RFC just don't go down all of a sudden after 18months...what's your thoughts?

Hi Lee how have you determined it's a Rodent causing the trouble?

 

[Rpa07]

I have to admit I was hoping for a nice photo of said damage - sorry for the grief!

 

[Wilko]

If I've understood correctly you've found 2 N-E faults in one RFC that was installed and tested ok 18 months ago. That's pretty unusual - is it worth a bit more time to explore?

 

[Midwest]

Guess your problem is proving its 'meeces', without being able to produce damaged cable?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Bit of a punt @Pete999 but unless like @telectrix says faulty cable then I can't think what else it could possibly be. It's been in 18months and all working fine until this morning. The section of house that the RFC serves is the only section with a suspended floor. IIRC there's about and 8" void.

 

[Leesparkykent]

If I've understood correctly you've found 2 N-E faults in one RFC that was installed and tested ok 18 months ago. That's pretty unusual - is it worth a bit more time to explore?

yeah pretty much but it's line to earth....The trouble is exploring equals damage.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

N - E or L - N Which one ?

 

[telectrix]

L - E, according to the OP.

flat as a pancake line-earth

 

[Leesparkykent]

Yep line to earth.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

yeah pretty much but it's line to neutral...The trouble is exploring equals damage.

confusing

 

[telectrix]

confusing

that's because lee has not had his medication yet. i recommend a single malt.

 

[Leesparkykent]

confusing

sorry mate I've edited it now Line-earth.

 

[Leesparkykent]

that's because lee has not had his medication yet. i recommend a single malt.

just walked in I'll see what's in the drinks cabinet

 

[Wilko]

My oops too - sorry. Anywhen, I guess there's no chance to pull that cable back ? Usually the rats leave conductors exposed or bite right through them. But he could have expired on the job and be causing the issue. Out of interest, what was the IR? Is there any chance there's water in that void?

Edit - no medication here yet either. Have to wait till she goes out tonight

 

[Wilko]

Deleted duplicate

 

[Ian1981]

Even if you manage to renew the faulty /damaged cables what's the chance it may happen again to different legs of the RFC?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The thing is it could be anything, could be damage from the building work, it's going to be difficult to pin it to a mickey without evidence.
Nightmare, you have my sympathy.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Even if you manage to renew the faulty /damaged cables what's the chance it may happen again to different legs of the RFC?

True but then it's down to the customer to sort his infestation out

 

[Leesparkykent]

My oops too - sorry. Anywhen, I guess there's no chance to pull that cable back ? Usually the rats leave conductors exposed or bite right through them. But he could have expired on the job and be causing the issue. Out of interest, what was the IR? Is there any chance there's water in that void?

Edit - no medication here yet either. Have to wait till she goes out tonight

no chance of pulling cables etc mate and 0.00Mohm...

 

[Ian1981]

True but then it's down to the customer to sort his infestation out

Have you told him it maybe down to vermin?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Have you told him it maybe down to vermin?

Not yet mate as only the father in law was there and doesn't speak the best English...He's also the type that follows you around looking over your shoulder or pulls a chair up and sits there watching

 

[westward10]

Whether it is chargeable can only be ascertained with evidence of the cause.

 

[Ian1981]

Not yet mate as only the father in law was there and doesn't speak the best English...He's also the type that follows you around looking over your shoulder or pulls a chair up and sits there watching

Are yes the nosy nellies, they are a disturbing breed.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Whether it is chargeable can only be ascertained with evidence of the cause.

I will skill saw his solid oak flooring up tomorrow to take a peak

 

[jackhammerJIM]

If your 100% it was tested good at installation then it is chargeable IMO and its discussion time with the client about how you fix with least amount of damage . hopefully its all in the floor voids . seek advice from a joiner whether he can lift and relay a section of floor or alternatively go through the ceiling from below .

For minimal damage repair the section between 3 and 4 and turn into a radial . If it does turn out to be rodent damage this could be just the start unfortunately .

 

[Leesparkykent]

If your 100% it was tested good at installation then it is chargeable IMO and its discussion time with the client about how you fix with least amount of damage . hopefully its all in the floor voids . seek advice from a joiner whether he can lift and relay a section of floor or alternatively go through the ceiling from below .

For minimal damage repair the section between 3 and 4 and turn into a radial . If it does turn out to be rodent damage this could be just the start unfortunately .

yeah that's my thoughts. It's all on the ground floor unfortunately.

 

[westward10]

Year and a half down the line with no previous issues I think you have good reason to charge. Misread your opening post as 8 months

 

[Midwest]

Not yet mate as only the father in law was there and doesn't speak the best English...He's also the type that follows you around looking over your shoulder or pulls a chair up and sits there watching

He's not been gnawing on them?

 

[Leesparkykent]

He's not been gnawing on them?

haha might of been mate....

 

[Midwest]

yeah that's my thoughts. It's all on the ground floor unfortunately.

Is there any evidence of rodent infestation, i.e. tell tale droppings in the loft, they have a contract with Rentokill, with bait traps set up.

Did a job last week, spent two days in the loft. There was loads of mice pooh everywhere, but they haven't had their cables pack up yet.

 

[westward10]

I had a meece problem a few years back under the floor boards could hear them all night. Pulled some boards up and there was damage, not too bad so a bit of tape and will sort them one day. Bought a couple of plug in mouse scarers not holding out much hope but I swear I heard them legging it and have never been back.

 

[Octopus]

what were the readings n - e ?

Sounds a bit of a nightmare, and to have 2 legs down is very unfortunate...... For the customers wallet!

Can you remember the exact routes of the cables?

 

[Midwest]

Why do mice like (eating) pvc cables

Cancel that, my lads dog likes chewing on plastic dog toys, guess its the mouse equivalent.

PPS you could watch this film tonite Lee, might give you some ideas ;

 

[jackhammerJIM]

Why do mice like (eating) pvc cables

Cancel that, my lads dog likes chewing on plastic dog toys, guess its the mouse equivalent.

PPS you could watch this film tonite Lee, might give you some ideas ;

they love pipe lagging more

 

[Leesparkykent]

what were the readings n - e ?

Sounds a bit of a nightmare, and to have 2 legs down is very unfortunate...... For the customers wallet!

Can you remember the exact routes of the cables?

700 odd Mohm IIRC. Yeah I feel bad for the guy as he's put me on to a few other extended family members and have had 3 big jobs out of them. Might have to swallow the hit.

 

[mhar]

[QUOTE
Did a job last week, spent two days in the loft. There was loads of mice pooh everywhere, but they haven't had their cables pack up yet.[/QUOTE]

Had similar last week, very old mill and mouse poo everywhere in the attic. Commented to the owner and he told me to look up. There were a couple of clumps of bats roosting and it was their poo. Apparently bat and mouse poo can look similar but feel and taste different!

 

[Octopus]

Might have to swallow the hit.

Hum ........... I would be holding back on offering a freebie until you know whats caused the problem and how much its going to cost to fix.

Still think its odd that 2 legs have identical problems...

 

[Dave OCD]

Lee, I assume the two dodgy legs test dead short L-E with both sockets at either end completely removed ? And no evidence of dodgy DIY -like attempting to refix skirting or anything like that ? But I reckon you're right being as it's a ground floor void where the cables run. Funny thing I've noticed with gnawed cables is that most times the outer sheath has been chewed on the neutral side, wonder if the rats/mice can sense it , or do they have little voltsticks ?

 

[The Ghost]

Think I would be saying - If it's down to my workmanship, no charge if it's down to rodents or other causes I will charge.

 

[westward10]

Unless the installer knew of fauna issues in the first place

 

[westward10]

I know I got a dumb Lee but it was in jest.

 

[Midwest]

[QUOTE
Did a job last week, spent two days in the loft. There was loads of mice pooh everywhere, but they haven't had their cables pack up yet.

Had similar last week, very old mill and mouse poo everywhere in the attic. Commented to the owner and he told me to look up. There were a couple of clumps of bats roosting and it was their poo. Apparently bat and mouse poo can look similar but feel and taste different![/QUOTE]

Batman wasn't visible, think I would of seen him!

 

[PEG]

Hi dude,until i had sight of miscreant mammals,i would first suspect some DIY or "work" whether unknown or just not admitted

 

[The Ghost]

feel and taste different

Errr...taste different? is there something we ought to know?

 

[Rpa07]

Midwest is a chef after all - they are a strange bunch, you should taste his 'batlava' it's sweet but has little treats!

Errr...taste different? is there something we ought to know?

 

[static zap]

...taste different?........

On the topic of tasting better ,
our local rats seemed to prefer the taste of alarm cable, to T&E !
... or does it just look more untidy... un-clipped .
Flopping about in suspended ceiling .

 

[Midwest]

Errr...taste different? is there something we ought to know?

T'was mhar's comment about tasting, not mine

 

[The Ghost]

T'was mhar's

Yes indeed mhar it was, sorry about the mix up.