Hi guys whats your take of how many EICRs can be done properly in a day average of 5 to 8 circuits ranging from 1 bed flats to 3 bed houses?? This would also include travel and also doing any repairs whilst there?
- Thread starter magnoliafan89
- Start date
Brian.... I’m a little perturbed, I used to live in Rainham Essex prior to my departure from the UK. There was so much work. Even when the financial crash of 2008 happened. My day rate was still £150 a day and I was a subbie like yourself.
It doesn’t look good when your pricing other sparks out of the market with ridiculously low rates. Value yourself and Value the Trade.
Over here if you pull that B/S you’ll be blacklisted from the wholesalers. Sparks talk we know what the ball park figures should be. That way it’s a fair crack on your customer relations skills rather than a race to the bottom.
Funnily enough there is a massive Tesco in rainham village. Hit them up.
It doesn’t look good when your pricing other sparks out of the market with ridiculously low rates. Value yourself and Value the Trade.
Over here if you pull that B/S you’ll be blacklisted from the wholesalers. Sparks talk we know what the ball park figures should be. That way it’s a fair crack on your customer relations skills rather than a race to the bottom.
Funnily enough there is a massive Tesco in rainham village. Hit them up.
well no sensible operator would but I've had a few inquiries in The past over such an issue on the basis that as it is contary to the regs it requires a rewire.
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an interesting message but I can assure you the wholesalers over here will sell to anyone trade or public alike..also I don't see it as my job to hike my prices simply to allow others to continue to charge inflated prices..my job is to carry out the work at the cheapest possible price i can to compete with others...if they can't compete them they have to organise their business in such a way as to try and undercut me ...that's the way the capitalist system works .
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in addition I'm not sure what the job market is like in Rainha m Essex as I've never been there
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I think you need to read the whole of this message....the 50 circuits a day relates to particularly odious company I worked for some time ago and although that's what they wanted it was clearly not possible to do so in order to keep the peace is us testers would simply log the circuits do a few tests write down a few observations and pack up for the dayDon't how you come to the conclusion you do, here is 5 pages of jobs not to far from you from a very quick search
Electrician Jobs in Rainham - December 2024 | Essex Jobs
Search for 1000s of Electrician Jobs in Rainham. Register your CV and apply to the latest job vacancies. Find your next job with Essex Jobswww.essexjobs.co.uk
So 50 circuits a day has now come down to 5 tested circuits and 45 noted or is it 500 circuits a day with 50 tested circuits and 450 noted
100% tests are viable yes they are not as cheap as your EICR's but wouldn't cost the thousands you claim unless it was a very large installation but then again it depends what peace of mind the customer wants
Some very large installations are like that and the customer / dutyholder is prepared to pay that price to avoid the possibility of talking to people wearing wigs who may decide that a stay in one of Her Majesties hotels is necessary because someone died or was seriously injured
EICR's are not some sort of game when you sign it you are making a statement that could and would be used as evidence in a court either for or against you, I have always found it odd that the client does not have to sign it in the limitations section to agree to any limitations as currently the tester does not have any proof that the customer was made aware of them and agreed them after the EICR is done
I also think that the certificates should be changed so green is a satisfactory EICR and red is an unsatisfactory EICR it would make it a lot clearer for everyone involved in the management of premises where a valid EICR is a requirement
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On the question of limitations most companies will list the limitations and terms of test in their general terms and conditions in that way the customer(should they bother to read) said terms and conditions would know what they are paying for, so complaining that they are not getting what they expected after the event doesn't cut much ice
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Have a look at the time-cost-quality triangle. I'd think that your job is to make money as an electriian isn't it? You're a business first and a sparky second. Do you not have a business model or USP? Just because somebody charges more than another doesn't make them per se expensive or 'ripping the customer off'. I see that comment a lot on the forum. By way of example if we were to both price to rewire a house and you estimated £5K and I £8K thats my price. Neither of us have gun to the customers head and its a free market so the customer can choose which company they go with.
I dont want to depress you but my 2nd year apprentice earns more than the figures you quote and I charge out per hour more than you per day/per EICR. I really dont think that a race to the bottom by charging so little is how a capitalistic society works? I really feel your pain and wish something could be done to help you increase revenue.
BTW @telectrix is semi retired and must be at least 300 years old
and I bet he doesn't struggle to charge more than your quoted rates
my tuppence woth. brian is misguided if he thinks that % testing means only testin some circuits and not others.
% testing means that you test all circuits, but only a percentage of the points on those circuits. an EICR that misses out circuits is like a MOT without checking brakes. pointless, worthless and not worth the paper.
% testing means that you test all circuits, but only a percentage of the points on those circuits. an EICR that misses out circuits is like a MOT without checking brakes. pointless, worthless and not worth the paper.
D
Dustydazzler
Would love to see someone do a full Eicr on this gaff...in under a day
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98pQlrHsB3E
Not too sure I know what the time cost quality triangle is let alone a UPS and my business plan is get the work do what I need to do and get paid...isn't that anyone's plan in life, we all have to do whatever it takes to achieve thisHave a look at the time-cost-quality triangle. I'd think that your job is to make money as an electriian isn't it? You're a business first and a sparky second. Do you not have a business model or USP? Just because somebody charges more than another doesn't make them per se expensive or 'ripping the customer off'. I see that comment a lot on the forum. By way of example if we were to both price to rewire a house and you estimated £5K and I £8K thats my price. Neither of us have gun to the customers head and its a free market so the customer can choose which company they go with.
I dont want to depress you but my 2nd year apprentice earns more than the figures you quote and I charge out per hour more than you per day/per EICR. I really dont think that a race to the bottom by charging so little is how a capitalistic society works? I really feel your pain and wish something could be done to help you increase revenue.
BTW @telectrix is semi retired and must be at least 300 years old
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I thank you for your concern and advice but my experience is that it is always the lowest price that gets the job, given your example of the house rewire i know I would go for the cheapest every time,....were those actual prices for a house rewire in your area of do you have very large houses in your area ?Have a look at the time-cost-quality triangle. I'd think that your job is to make money as an electriian isn't it? You're a business first and a sparky second. Do you not have a business model or USP? Just because somebody charges more than another doesn't make them per se expensive or 'ripping the customer off'. I see that comment a lot on the forum. By way of example if we were to both price to rewire a house and you estimated £5K and I £8K thats my price. Neither of us have gun to the customers head and its a free market so the customer can choose which company they go with.
I dont want to depress you but my 2nd year apprentice earns more than the figures you quote and I charge out per hour more than you per day/per EICR. I really dont think that a race to the bottom by charging so little is how a capitalistic society works? I really feel your pain and wish something could be done to help you increase revenue.
BTW @telectrix is semi retired and must be at least 300 years old
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Whether a certificate is worthless or not is highly subjective, as long as the customer is getting what they require i don't see a problem with the extent of the test carried out as long as it's what they want, to be honest if the customer wanted a blank certificate I'd be only too happy to oblige with a blank signed copy and charge according.
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"to be honest if the customer wanted a blank certificate I'd be only too happy to oblige with a blank signed copy and charge according".
So fraudulent scum for £40 a pop !
So fraudulent scum for £40 a pop !
G
GBDamo
Gutted, I had my CV ready and everythingmy bad that was meant to be a month ?? bloody wish it were a week!!
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This limited percentage approache is done annually.
I have seen many doing 20% EICRs every year so that 100% is covered in the five year recommended retest period.
Firstly why it's done? God knows, is probably a bean counter thing or business interruption?
Secondly, how they manage it to ensure all circuits are covered and not just the easiest 20% every time is beyond me.
There are some very big FM companies doing this, very badly.
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Sorry please explain where the scam is? the customer is getting what they want i am not taking money under false pretence or falsifying anything..my customers know exactly what they are getting
You are undercutting proper electricians by not bothering paying into a scheme, and giving the customer a cheap, non notified job.
incidentally I have never done this but I am a mere servant of the Customer as are we all.
So you don't do what you have been saying????
Sorry again please explane where the scam is..doing a cheap job is not a crime and I'm not saying that the jobs are not notified i simply leave that to the customers and as such I have no need to belong to an overpriced scheme. This to me represents the most economical way to operate my work and all to The benefit of the person paying the bill.
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what I'm saying is that I've never been asked for a blank certificate to be honest for most of my customers it would be uneccassary as they could just as easily go to the wholesalers and purchase there own certificate pad.
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No cowboy here just trying to make a living
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A troll is a person who posts on forums like this one with comments that are intended to wind people up, or get them to bite.
So you do give completed certs out for each job you do?
Vortigern
Arms
Well they will have to pay the fee to Building control which is about £250-350 depends on where you are. The job has to be notified at least 48 hours prior to commencement by law. Failure to do so is a criminal offence. However I have no problems at your rate personally. So say put in a ring circuit 10 sockets would cost about £500 you would charge £130 for mats and labour and they would pay 350 for bc, not much difference really except I can afford the scheme costs. So I dont think it is entirely valid to say we MUST take what we can get. I would say on notifiable work it may work out about the same. I can see your viewpoint and don't entirely agree with the vitriol that has been expressed on the subject but I don't think it is as cut and dried as you suggest. I think it is very much more to do with perception and expectations of life etc. i.e. just a mindset, you create what you believe is so.
I think we all know that most customers are probably not going to phone building control up and pay them £300.
thank you sir at last someone who can see the alternative way of thinking...a welcome breath of fresh air on this forum.
Vortigern
Arms
It's all very well to give out platitudes as to customer service but if they are home owners the implications of such work is that they may compromise their insurance and have difficulty selling their homes which will cost them more in the long run. That is why sensible people do the right thing and get in a kosher operation. I am not trying to heap further indignity on you just stating the regs and statutes that govern our work which we must comply with to be fair and honest with the customer.
No I can't agree please explain where the illegality is on my part.
Vortigern
Arms
You know a lot of customers reject my quotes which is fair enough I really do not mind. But I know what I am worth and what it costs to know what I know and stay abreast with the proper equipment fully calibrated and up to date with regs etc. A cost analysis inevitably means I have to charge the rates I do or I will be losing money. The good news is most customers prefer me to be reassuringly expensive.
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Look above Brian, the law requires notification to building control at least 48 hours prior to commencement of notifiable work, this is statute not regs. Failure to do so can be very costly as well as illegal.
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Look above Brian, the law requires notification to building control at least 48 hours prior to commencement of notifiable work, this is statute not regs. Failure to do so can be very costly as well as illegal.
Well in the 30 years that I've been in the sparky business insurance considerations have never been a problem..I think this is like saying that you will be sued if you cause a person to fall and break a leg due to inefficient snow clearance....it's never happen and it probably never will.
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How can you notify 48 hours prior to commencement? You may not know your doing the work until a few short hours prior to start...again I'm not saying that notification should not be given just that I'm not the one who's going to do it, if you like I sub that responsibility to the customer....where is the problem in that ?
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Vortigern
Arms
Well integrity means steering the customer through the maze of legal requirements to ensure that your work does not compromise their legal position. The onus on us is to ensure the customer is fully informed as to the legalities of working on electrical installations in domestic premises. As to the idea of people being prosecuted for not notifying building control of notifiable works, I would say it is disingenuous to suggest like a slip on an uncleared path is comparable to the likelihood of the above situation. Either that or it is being wilfully blind to the legal requirements stated. In any event I would suggest it is highly unprofessional to collude with a client to avoid or obfuscate what is a clear legal requirement. I am not trying to denigrate you here just keeping you held to the fire, as I could not in all conscience operate outside of the requirements. You could likewise say that an IR reading of <1Mohm, as it has not caused a problem so far would be as likely to cause a problem as in your snow scenario, so no need to take action, would you? Oh by the way I have been doing all this malarkey for 45 years.
No I can't disagree more we are simple sparkles not lawyers we deal with screwdrivers, cutters and hammers not the intricacies of obscure law and I don't think it's very satisfactory that we are obliged to engage in this contrived paperwork exercise...Well done after 45years you must be utterly cream crackered.
Gutted, I had my CV ready and everything
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This limited percentage approache is done annually.
I have seen many doing 20% EICRs every year so that 100% is covered in the five year recommended retest period.
Firstly why it's done? God knows, is probably a bean counter thing or business interruption?
Secondly, how they manage it to ensure all circuits are covered and not just the easiest 20% every time is beyond me.
There are some very big FM companies doing this, very badly.
Bad luck with the CV but last time I was over Hereford the had only just got electricity so now the novelty has worn off I guess the money is just not there.
FM companies will have a contract to test the whole site over the five year period and should not be issuing EICR for the whole installation each year (which is what the 1 in 10 person is reporting as satisfactory).
Ours are split over a three year period not five, based on either an initial EIC or if these not available or there are far to many "alterations/additions" then it will start with an EICR. It then becomes a recorded maintenance program so no need for constant certification and removes ability for the testing of only the easiest circuit constantly.
Vortigern
Arms
@Brian Taylor ignorance of the law is no excuse. You must work and act within the Law. Knowing that BC must be informed prior to notifiable work does not make you a lawyer! Most people know this anyway. If you cannot understand the law then you cannot understand the regs. In which case you should not be in the field of work one should be filling shelves and keep it simple. I or we are not "simple sparkles" (read electricians) as you put it. I have had to sit maybe 20 different exams over time, practical and written. Although it is basic science and we are not rocket scientists it does require some application to master the basic science along with intelligence. Now you can self talk yourself down and no doubt others here will help you but it ends at including me and others in your endlessly shrinking view of yourself. I am not knackered as you put it. I am full of energy and love of life. As it happens I did do a law degree some 30 years ago now. I have been a chair of a charitable trust. So I have dealt with some quite technical stuff. Me? I am built for it. I have never seen my self as simple, like Dorian Gray in the league of Gentlemen, I see myself as complicated. Mediocrity and self flagellation is a hateful thing to me. As you say this forum is for the exchange of ideas. What are you doing here then? Ideas are complex stick to your screwdrivers oh humble sparkles leave this to the big boys. Or...take on board some of the ideas here and humble yourself in a real way and accept that this is a two way street and open up to some of the ideas here. Like; there is a bit more to being a sparky than smacking something with a hammer.
D
davesparks
If they are having an EICR then they get one every year for the part of the installation which has been tested.
Don't forget that a properly recorded system of regular inspection, testing and maintainence is a valid alternative to an EICR.
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