How many eicr in a day

[magnoliafan89]

Hi guys whats your take of how many EICRs can be done properly in a day average of 5 to 8 circuits ranging from 1 bed flats to 3 bed houses?? This would also include travel and also doing any repairs whilst there?

 

[7029 dave]

Am sitting down with popcorn at the ready an all ears.

 

[GBDamo]

my bad that was meant to be a month ?? bloody wish it were a week!!

Gutted, I had my CV ready and everything
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The use of the limitations section helps the tester to limit the amount of work required e.g. Many will place a limit of 10% testing ie 1in every 10 circuits are tested..


I have read all your post. You are clearly stating you only test 1 in 10 circuits.

If you look back through I think you will see I clearly know exactly what is involve with testing and inspecting, and much more importantly I know exactly what I expect and what gets paid for.

This limited percentage approache is done annually.

I have seen many doing 20% EICRs every year so that 100% is covered in the five year recommended retest period.

Firstly why it's done? God knows, is probably a bean counter thing or business interruption?

Secondly, how they manage it to ensure all circuits are covered and not just the easiest 20% every time is beyond me.

There are some very big FM companies doing this, very badly.

 

[Brian Taylor]

"to be honest if the customer wanted a blank certificate I'd be only too happy to oblige with a blank signed copy and charge according".

So fraudulent scum for £40 a pop !

Sorry please explain where the scam is? the customer is getting what they want i am not taking money under false pretence or falsifying anything..my customers know exactly what they are getting

 

[DPG]

Sorry please explain where the scam is? the customer is getting what they want i am not taking money under false pretence or falsifying anything..my customers know exactly what they are getting

You are undercutting proper electricians by not bothering paying into a scheme, and giving the customer a cheap, non notified job.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Sorry please explain where the scam is? the customer is getting what they want i am not taking money under false pretence or falsifying anything..my customers know exactly what they are getting

incidentally I have never done this but I am a mere servant of the Customer as are we all.

 

[DPG]

incidentally I have never done this but I am a mere servant of the Customer as are we all.

So you don't do what you have been saying????

 

[Brian Taylor]

You are undercutting proper electricians by not bothering paying into a scheme, and giving the customer a cheap, non notified job.

Sorry again please explane where the scam is..doing a cheap job is not a crime and I'm not saying that the jobs are not notified i simply leave that to the customers and as such I have no need to belong to an overpriced scheme. This to me represents the most economical way to operate my work and all to The benefit of the person paying the bill.
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So you don't do what you have been saying????

what I'm saying is that I've never been asked for a blank certificate to be honest for most of my customers it would be uneccassary as they could just as easily go to the wholesalers and purchase there own certificate pad.
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You are a cowboy who shouldn't be doing work for the public.

No cowboy here just trying to make a living

 

[DPG]

I don't see why a customer would want a blank certificate. Unless you aren't giving them a completed one when you've done the job.

 

[Brian Taylor]

You all know I'm not normally a big fan of signs and labels, but on these rare occasions a sign may be appropriate.

View attachment 59722

There's that term again..what is a troll?

 

[DPG]

There's that term again..what is a troll?

A troll is a person who posts on forums like this one with comments that are intended to wind people up, or get them to bite.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I don't see why a customer would want a blank certificate. Unless you aren't giving them a completed one when you've done the job.

I have no idea I wouldn't ask after their motive that's not my business

 

[DPG]

I have no idea I wouldn't ask after their motive that's not my business

So you do give completed certs out for each job you do?

 

[Vortigern]

Well they will have to pay the fee to Building control which is about £250-350 depends on where you are. The job has to be notified at least 48 hours prior to commencement by law. Failure to do so is a criminal offence. However I have no problems at your rate personally. So say put in a ring circuit 10 sockets would cost about £500 you would charge £130 for mats and labour and they would pay 350 for bc, not much difference really except I can afford the scheme costs. So I dont think it is entirely valid to say we MUST take what we can get. I would say on notifiable work it may work out about the same. I can see your viewpoint and don't entirely agree with the vitriol that has been expressed on the subject but I don't think it is as cut and dried as you suggest. I think it is very much more to do with perception and expectations of life etc. i.e. just a mindset, you create what you believe is so.

 

[Brian Taylor]

A troll is a person who posts on forums like this one with comments that are intended to wind people up, or get them to bite.

Well let me out your mind at rest i have no intention of winding anybody up ..what purpose would that serve?..surely this forum is for an exchange of ideas and information

 

[DPG]

Well they will have to pay the fee to Building control which is about £250-350 depends on where you are. The job has to be notified at least 48 hours prior to commencement by law. Failure to do so is a criminal offence. However I have no problems at your rate personally. So say put in a ring circuit 10 sockets would cost about £500 you would charge £130 for mats and labour and they would pay 350 for bc, not much difference really except I can afford the scheme costs. So I dont think it is entirely valid to say we MUST take what we can get. I would say on notifiable work it may work out about the same. I can see your viewpoint and don't entirely agree with the vitriol that has been expressed on the subject but I don't think it is as cut and dried as you suggest. I think it is very much more to do with perception and expectations of life etc. i.e. just a mindset, you create what you believe is so.

I think we all know that most customers are probably not going to phone building control up and pay them £300.

 

[Brian Taylor]

So you do give completed certs out for each job you do?

Yes I give a certificate for every job i do completed as far as I can

 

[Vortigern]

think we all know that most customers are probably not going to phone building control up and pay them £300.

Then, Badabing! it's an illegal operation of a business. Brian!

 

[Brian Taylor]

Well they will have to pay the fee to Building control which is about £250-350 depends on where you are. The job has to be notified at least 48 hours prior to commencement by law. Failure to do so is a criminal offence. However I have no problems at your rate personally. So say put in a ring circuit 10 sockets would cost about £500 you would charge £130 for mats and labour and they would pay 350 for bc, not much difference really except I can afford the scheme costs. So I dont think it is entirely valid to say we MUST take what we can get. I would say on notifiable work it may work out about the same. I can see your viewpoint and don't entirely agree with the vitriol that has been expressed on the subject but I don't think it is as cut and dried as you suggest. I think it is very much more to do with perception and expectations of life etc. i.e. just a mindset, you create what you believe is so.

thank you sir at last someone who can see the alternative way of thinking...a welcome breath of fresh air on this forum.

 

[Vortigern]

It's all very well to give out platitudes as to customer service but if they are home owners the implications of such work is that they may compromise their insurance and have difficulty selling their homes which will cost them more in the long run. That is why sensible people do the right thing and get in a kosher operation. I am not trying to heap further indignity on you just stating the regs and statutes that govern our work which we must comply with to be fair and honest with the customer.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Then, Badabing! it's an illegal operation of a business. Brian!

No I can't agree please explain where the illegality is on my part.

 

[Vortigern]

You know a lot of customers reject my quotes which is fair enough I really do not mind. But I know what I am worth and what it costs to know what I know and stay abreast with the proper equipment fully calibrated and up to date with regs etc. A cost analysis inevitably means I have to charge the rates I do or I will be losing money. The good news is most customers prefer me to be reassuringly expensive.
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Look above Brian, the law requires notification to building control at least 48 hours prior to commencement of notifiable work, this is statute not regs. Failure to do so can be very costly as well as illegal.

 

[Brian Taylor]

It's all very well to give out platitudes as to customer service but if they are home owners the implications of such work is that they may compromise their insurance and have difficulty selling their homes which will cost them more in the long run. That is why sensible people do the right thing and get in a kosher operation.

Well in the 30 years that I've been in the sparky business insurance considerations have never been a problem..I think this is like saying that you will be sued if you cause a person to fall and break a leg due to inefficient snow clearance....it's never happen and it probably never will.
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You know a lot of customers reject my quotes which is fair enough I really do not mind. But I know what I am worth and what it costs to know what I know and stay abreast with the proper equipment fully calibrated and up to date with regs etc. A cost analysis inevitably means I have to charge the rates I do or I will be losing money. The good news is most customers prefer me to be reassuringly expensive.
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Look above Brian, the law requires notification to building control at least 48 hours prior to commencement of notifiable work, this is statute not regs. Failure to do so can be very costly as well as illegal.

How can you notify 48 hours prior to commencement? You may not know your doing the work until a few short hours prior to start...again I'm not saying that notification should not be given just that I'm not the one who's going to do it, if you like I sub that responsibility to the customer....where is the problem in that ?

 

[Vortigern]

Well integrity means steering the customer through the maze of legal requirements to ensure that your work does not compromise their legal position. The onus on us is to ensure the customer is fully informed as to the legalities of working on electrical installations in domestic premises. As to the idea of people being prosecuted for not notifying building control of notifiable works, I would say it is disingenuous to suggest like a slip on an uncleared path is comparable to the likelihood of the above situation. Either that or it is being wilfully blind to the legal requirements stated. In any event I would suggest it is highly unprofessional to collude with a client to avoid or obfuscate what is a clear legal requirement. I am not trying to denigrate you here just keeping you held to the fire, as I could not in all conscience operate outside of the requirements. You could likewise say that an IR reading of <1Mohm, as it has not caused a problem so far would be as likely to cause a problem as in your snow scenario, so no need to take action, would you? Oh by the way I have been doing all this malarkey for 45 years.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Well integrity means steering the customer through the maze of legal requirements to ensure that your work does not compromise their legal position. The onus on us is to ensure the customer is fully informed as to the legalities of working on electrical installations in domestic premises. As to the idea of people being prosecuted for not notifying building control of notifiable works, I would say it is disingenuous to suggest like a slip on an uncleared path is comparable to the likelihood of the above situation. Either that or it is being wilfully blind to the legal requirements stated. In any event I would suggest it is highly unprofessional to collude with a client to avoid or obfuscate what is a clear legal requirement. I am not trying to denigrate you here just keeping you held to the fire, as I could not in all conscience operate outside of the requirements. You could likewise say that an IR reading of <1Mohm, as it has not caused a problem so far would be as likely to cause a problem as in your snow scenario, so no need to take action, would you? Oh by the way I have been doing all this malarkey for 45 years.

No I can't disagree more we are simple sparkles not lawyers we deal with screwdrivers, cutters and hammers not the intricacies of obscure law and I don't think it's very satisfactory that we are obliged to engage in this contrived paperwork exercise...Well done after 45years you must be utterly cream crackered.

 

[David Prosser]

Gutted, I had my CV ready and everything
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This limited percentage approache is done annually.

I have seen many doing 20% EICRs every year so that 100% is covered in the five year recommended retest period.

Firstly why it's done? God knows, is probably a bean counter thing or business interruption?

Secondly, how they manage it to ensure all circuits are covered and not just the easiest 20% every time is beyond me.

There are some very big FM companies doing this, very badly.

Bad luck with the CV but last time I was over Hereford the had only just got electricity so now the novelty has worn off I guess the money is just not there.

FM companies will have a contract to test the whole site over the five year period and should not be issuing EICR for the whole installation each year (which is what the 1 in 10 person is reporting as satisfactory).

Ours are split over a three year period not five, based on either an initial EIC or if these not available or there are far to many "alterations/additions" then it will start with an EICR. It then becomes a recorded maintenance program so no need for constant certification and removes ability for the testing of only the easiest circuit constantly.

 

[Vortigern]

@Brian Taylor ignorance of the law is no excuse. You must work and act within the Law. Knowing that BC must be informed prior to notifiable work does not make you a lawyer! Most people know this anyway. If you cannot understand the law then you cannot understand the regs. In which case you should not be in the field of work one should be filling shelves and keep it simple. I or we are not "simple sparkles" (read electricians) as you put it. I have had to sit maybe 20 different exams over time, practical and written. Although it is basic science and we are not rocket scientists it does require some application to master the basic science along with intelligence. Now you can self talk yourself down and no doubt others here will help you but it ends at including me and others in your endlessly shrinking view of yourself. I am not knackered as you put it. I am full of energy and love of life. As it happens I did do a law degree some 30 years ago now. I have been a chair of a charitable trust. So I have dealt with some quite technical stuff. Me? I am built for it. I have never seen my self as simple, like Dorian Gray in the league of Gentlemen, I see myself as complicated. Mediocrity and self flagellation is a hateful thing to me. As you say this forum is for the exchange of ideas. What are you doing here then? Ideas are complex stick to your screwdrivers oh humble sparkles leave this to the big boys. Or...take on board some of the ideas here and humble yourself in a real way and accept that this is a two way street and open up to some of the ideas here. Like; there is a bit more to being a sparky than smacking something with a hammer.

 

[UNG]

I have seen many doing 20% EICRs every year so that 100% is covered in the five year recommended retest period.

Firstly why it's done? God knows, is probably a bean counter thing or business interruption?

Secondly, how they manage it to ensure all circuits are covered and not just the easiest 20% every time is beyond me.

A lot of companies have or use a rolling PPM system and so have a continuity of work. Documentation normally details what is specifically checked at each annual test so after 5 years the whole installation has been checked

 

[7029 dave]

A lot of companies have or use a rolling PPM system and so have a continuity of work. Documentation normally details what is specifically checked at each annual test so after 5 years the whole installation has been checked

So when do they get their EICR year 5? Just a bit confused with this situation.

 

[magnoliafan89]

Bad luck with the CV but last time I was over Hereford the had only just got electricity so now the novelty has worn off .

oi ya cheeky git!!!!

 

[davesparks]

So when do they get their EICR year 5? Just a bit confused with this situation.

If they are having an EICR then they get one every year for the part of the installation which has been tested.

Don't forget that a properly recorded system of regular inspection, testing and maintainence is a valid alternative to an EICR.