Discuss Immersion Heater - PV electricity in the Central Heating Systems area at ElectriciansForums.net
Incidentally, has anyone had anything to do with the Engensia Solar 24 box, which appears to do the same as Immersun, but cheaper still - and appears to have been developed on this forum?
OG
Hi all. These recircculating pumping systems seem all very neat but by the time you've bought a decent pump, two thermostats etc the overall cost sneaks up appreciably. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience retrofitting a second immersion heater at the bottom of the tank? On reflection, shame but at a glance the central heating coils of a standard tank seem to sit too close to the bottom to fit a standard immersion anyway.
If you clear your PM box I can send you a PM
The longest top fitting immersion that fits is not inexpensive. Or if you live in a hard water area bite the bullet and change your tank for a taller or dual element one. It’s going to fail someday anyway due to the hard water.
I think they work best when they start with cold water, which washes certain foods off before they "bake" on.I have also wondered about how to best use the hot water this generates, and was thinking about putting a thermostatic mixer valve in to the feed for the dishwasher and washing machine (both cold feed only), to give them warm water at about 30-40C.
Hi Maurice,
When I purchased my KSD9700 NC/NO switches from eBay, I looked for a seller who listed a NC version and then asked them if they also had a NO version. I suggest you do the same. Search for a seller chinaeproducts (they don't have any listed at the moment) send them an email and tell them what you want, this is where I purchased mine.
Alternatively you could use these, search on ebay for KSD301 60 these switches have better hysteresis than the KDS9700. The KDS9700 switch at 60 +/- 5 degrees and reset at 40 +/- 10 Degrees. The KSD301 switch at 60 +/- 3 Degrees and reset at 45 +/- 5 Degrees. The KSD301 also have two lugs which you can use to secure to the tank with elastic.
Hope this helps.
regards Duplada
Thanks Duplada.
Yeah, I mailed a number of companies some months back about availability of the NO, but nothing was on offer. Don't know whether I tried chinaeproducts though - will check this out. I also have this as saved search on ebay.
What is your take on the hysteresis though - is this a problem in practise, to the extent that you are now using another thermostat type or feel a change would be worthwhile?
I also found these KSD301's while searching for KDS9700 switches, but I was put off by the fact that they are 240v AC and the need for safety casing etc.
cheers, Mo
Solar 24 is definitely not an Immersun. The Immersun is a burst fire device that is illegal because it does not pass the mandatory flicker specification, so can cause your and your neighbours lights to flicker. Because of this no one is allowed to sell or install them so why are you?@OldGrouser from what I recall (can't find it now on the Engensa site), their Solar 24 IS an ImmerSUN.
What a shame - these things should be allowed to be fitted subject to an impedance test of the mains supply. I know they wouldn't cause my lights to flicker.The Immersun is a burst fire device that is illegal because it does not pass the mandatory flicker specification, so can cause your and your neighbours lights to flicker.
Hi I am a retired Elec Eng and have been following your discussion with pauldreed about using excess solar pv power as I would like to build a power diverter circuit for my 3.655kW array. I have two CTs and have considered either using a Picaxe or OP Amp front end and would prefer to have system which will follow the input/output power difference as closely as possible. Would you mind sharing your circuit diagram with me?
Not that familiar with the flicker regs but I believe that in industrial installations you can do an impedance test to prove it’s OK, but in domestic use not so. Unless your mains is almost a tenth of the standard impedance used in the spec I doubt even your house would be OK with a 3kW burst fire controller as they fail that badly.What a shame - these things should be allowed to be fitted subject to an impedance test of the mains supply. I know they wouldn't cause my lights to flicker.
The Immersun is a burst fire device that is illegal because it does not pass the mandatory flicker specification, so can cause your and your neighbours lights to flicker. Because of this no one is allowed to sell or install them so why are you?
The Solar 24 works differently, is cheaper and legal. Its performance is as good as or better than any other.
The Immersun is a burst fire device that is illegal because it does not pass the mandatory flicker specification. Because of this no one is allowed to sell or install them so why are you?
The Solar 24 works differently, is cheaper and legal. Its performance is as good as or better than any other.
really?I know that there are already over 2000 Immersuns installed, and I am not aware of any complaints.
BS EN 61000-6-1 Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC). Generic standards. Immunity for residential, commercial and light-industrial environments 2007BS EN 61000-6-3 Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC). Generic standards. Emission standard for residential, commercial and light-industrial environments 2007
EN 61000-3-3 is now mandatory under the EMC Directive for all equipment that consumes up to 16A/phase from the public 230V supply. Test laboratories use an instrument called a ‘flickermeter’ to measure to this standard. EN 61000-3-3 limits the emissions of voltage fluctuations and flicker
I think it's the newer models that have smaller elements, and use the burst fire just to keep them topped up with heat, probably as they use so much less water and lower temps... not my field though, but I have stuck power meters on a few in the past to see what they're drawing.Thanks - that's really interesting. Just one point though: elements in dishwashers etc are not limited to 1kW (my dishwasher element's the best part of 3kW [though it is old]; washing machine about 2kW; oven in total >3kW but interestingly it staggers the switching of its elements). However, they are not controlled by burst firing so they will only cause intermittent flickering as they switch on and off infrequently, rather than constant flickering by being switched several times a second.
Did echase manage to get his design commercially developed?
ah, hold on they're different regulations, it's BS EN 61000-3-3:2008 and EN 61000-3-11 that are the regulations in question.
this diagram explains why the Immersun can't meet those regulations, as it shouldn't be able to cause a volt swing each time it cuts in of more than just under 0.3% or around 0.7V, but the location we had it at I measured around a 2V drop from switching on a 3kW load, so effectively every time the burst fire kicks in on each cycle it's causing around a 2V drop on that cycle.
Presumably this is why dishwashers and washing machines are restricted to around a 1kW element.
Design for EMC Part 6: ESD, dips and dropouts, etc.
http://www.reo.co.uk/files/handbook_en_61000-3-3_and_en_61000-3-11.pdf
I've been meaning to get back to 4-Eco about this tbh.
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