MFT for a DIYer?

S

Steve T

-
DIY
Hi,
I've decided a decent test meter would be useful for me but given that I wouldn't be using it more than a couple of times a year I don't really want to buy a new one for £400+, so had a look on ebay and there's quite a few for around £100 which seems much more sensible for the amount of use I'll need. I have a few in mind which I'll post in the links below, if anyone would be kind enough to have a look at them and give me some advice it would be greatly appreciated!

www.ebay.co.uk

metrel multifunction tester EasiPLUS Mi3000 | eBay

<p>metrel multifunction tester EasiPLUS Mi3000. Condition is "Used". </p><br><p>It’s had a damaged screen but doesn’t effect it.</p><p>Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class.</p>
www.ebay.co.uk

www.ebay.co.uk

Metrel Easitest Multifunction Tester | eBay

<p>Metrel Easitest Multifunction Tester. Condition is "Used". Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class.</p><p>Sorry no returns with this item.</p>
www.ebay.co.uk

www.ebay.co.uk

Metrel Multifunction Tester 61557 | eBay

<p>Metrel Multifunction Tester 61557. Condition is "Used". if you are looking at this you obviously know what you are looking at .my brother in law was a good time served electrical engineer who loved his equipment and took very good care of it.sadly he died suddenly and my wife has been dealing...
www.ebay.co.uk

Those are all metrel ones, if they don't look decent I'm happy to wait until something better comes up.

Also none of them have an up to date calibration certificate so that would mean I'd need to get it calibrated, what sort of cost would I be looking at? I'm based in Newcastle-upon-Tyne so if anyone knows good calibration companies around here that would would be great!

I should point out I'm only planning on using it in my own home, and just want to be able to test any work I do (all fairly minor stuff that wouldn't require notification or anything). Also I'm just interested and want to learn about proper testing. (Can you tell I'm bored in lockdown lol).
Thanks for any replies!
 
What ever you buy make sure you buy it with a Credit Card not PayPal, they just closed a resolution on my account even though I did not receive the item, the seller some how managed to get a Royal Mail tracking that said I had received even though I had not, no recourse to PayPal, but you could get reimbursed by your Credit Card.
 
Mike Johnson said:
What ever you buy make sure you buy it with a Credit Card not PayPal, they just closed a resolution on my account even though I did not receive the item, the seller some how managed to get a Royal Mail tracking that said I had received even though I had not, no recourse to PayPal, but you could get reimbursed by your Credit Card.
Click to expand...
I will do, I also try to buy from sellers with good reviews.
 
That Metrel Mi3000 is great piece of equipment but yellow ones were the oldest, try look for blue ones they were much newer version and grey are the latest.

Calibration as above expect around £50-£60 incl postage.

Now in terms of paying by paypal or credit card its not as easy as Mike said. Most ebay sellers take paypal payments only and wont take direct payment from your credit card. You can use credit card through paypal but then path is broken and Section 75 wont apply as you used agent and did not pay directly to supplier so credit card company will reject your claim. Also worth to note that payment needs to be at least £100 to qualify.
Try to agree with the seller that tester will be subject to calibration and if it fail seller will give you full refund.
 
buzzlightyear said:
so why would you need one ?.im asking for Pete .lol.
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To test any work I do. For instance I was planning on adding a couple of double sockets in a bedroom by extending the ring which is something I would only do if I could test it as its an alteration to a circuit. And for other small things
 
Steve T said:
To test any work I do. For instance I was planning on adding a couple of double sockets in a bedroom by extending the ring which is something I would only do if I could test it as its an alteration to a circuit. And for other small things
Click to expand...
Not planning to rewire a house or change a consumer unit or anything like that lol
 
Steve T said:
To test any work I do. For instance I was planning on adding a couple of double sockets in a bedroom by extending the ring which is something I would only do if I could test it as its an alteration to a circuit. And for other small things
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if you have not used any muilt testers before how the hell do you need one ,and you will either injury your self or other people .
 
buzzlightyear said:
if you have not used any muilt testers before how the hell do you need one ,and you will either injury your self or other people .
Click to expand...
What makes you think that, surely the point of testing is to make sure the circuit is safe so will not injure anyone. There's lots of instructional stuff on how to use one correctly, and its something I'm keen to learn for my own interest
 
Steve T said:
What makes you think that, surely the point of testing is to make sure the circuit is safe so will not injure anyone. There's lots of instructional stuff on how to use one correctly, and its something I'm keen to learn for my own interest
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do you know about ohms or Kirchhoff's law & the electricity work act & heath and safety and your house liability insurance .
 
buzzlightyear said:
do you know about ohms or Kirchhoff's law & the electricity work act & heath and safety and your house liability insurance .
Click to expand...
The first two, yes to some extent and I'm keen on learning about that sort of thing.
I am aware of the electricity work act and health and safety stuff. As for insurance as far as I'm aware diyers are allowed to do some electrical jobs in their own homes.
 
Steve T said:
The first two, yes to some extent and I'm keen on learning about that sort of thing.
Click to expand...
It is good that you wont to do things properly and realise that being able to test your work before and after energising is part of that. However, from the above comments the folk here are a bit concerned that learning via YouTube with a MFT is potentially a very dangerous hobby.

Many of the MTF measurements are "live" tests with things energised, they are obviously dangerous. However, the "dead" testing before that can be far more dangerous if the equipment is if fact live and you did not know that.

So the first step you ought to learn is the safe isolation process, and that means looking for a decent voltage tester and (ideally) a proving unit first. Never rely on a mlutimeter or MFT to prove dead, there are so many ways that can go wrong.
 
pc1966 said:
It is good that you wont to do things properly and realise that being able to test your work before and after energising is part of that. However, from the above comments the folk here are a bit concerned that learning via YouTube with a MFT is potentially a very dangerous hobby.

Many of the MTF measurements are "live" tests with things energised, they are obviously dangerous. However, the "dead" testing before that can be far more dangerous if the equipment is if fact live and you did not know that.

So the first step you ought to learn is the safe isolation process, and that means looking for a decent voltage tester and (ideally) a proving unit first. Never rely on a mlutimeter or MFT to prove dead, there are so many ways that can go wrong.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. I understand your concerns about possible danger, I should make it clear that I'm absolutely not planning on rushing to use one on my installation without having a good grasp on how it works and how to do things safely. I was actually considering making up a little 'mock installation' in my garage not connected to anything to teach myself how to use an mft before going anywhere near live testing or a real installation. I actually already have a gs38 voltage tester that I bought new a couple of years ago and I appreciate the need to prove dead. I don't have a proving unit though, I have just tested my voltage tester on a live supply before and after using it to check something is dead instead. Do you think that sounds like a sensible way to go about it?
 
Mike Johnson said:
What ever you buy make sure you buy it with a Credit Card not PayPal, they just closed a resolution on my account even though I did not receive the item, the seller some how managed to get a Royal Mail tracking that said I had received even though I had not, no recourse to PayPal, but you could get reimbursed by your Credit Card.
Click to expand...
PayPal sucks
 
Steve T said:
Thanks for your reply. I understand your concerns about possible danger, I should make it clear that I'm absolutely not planning on rushing to use one on my installation without having a good grasp on how it works and how to do things safely. I was actually considering making up a little 'mock installation' in my garage not connected to anything to teach myself how to use an mft before going anywhere near live testing or a real installation. I actually already have a gs38 voltage tester that I bought new a couple of years ago and I appreciate the need to prove dead. I don't have a proving unit though, I have just tested my voltage tester on a live supply before and after using it to check something is dead instead. Do you think that sounds like a sensible way to go about it?
Click to expand...
I also want to add I'm not trying to play at being an electrician, I'm just interested. I've got no problem using an electrician where required, for instance I had an electrician do a fairly extensive garden light installation a few years back as that was clearly out of the remit of diy, even though I probably 'could' have done it. I only do the smaller things myself as I actually enjoy it?
 
going back to the OP. the 3rd link looks a good buy from where i'm drinking sitting. be prepared to go up to £200.
 
pc1966 said:
It is good that you wont to do things properly and realise that being able to test your work before and after energising is part of that. However, from the above comments the folk here are a bit concerned that learning via YouTube with a MFT is potentially a very dangerous hobby.

Many of the MTF measurements are "live" tests with things energised, they are obviously dangerous. However, the "dead" testing before that can be far more dangerous if the equipment is if fact live and you did not know that.

So the first step you ought to learn is the safe isolation process, and that means looking for a decent voltage tester and (ideally) a proving unit first. Never rely on a mlutimeter or MFT to prove dead, there are so many ways that can go wrong.
Click to expand...
I'd go so far as to say ALL MFT tests are 'live tests' on the spirit of EAWR (Injection of a charge into a cable them males that cable charged).

(Anally retentive extracts below)

Charged/live (as used in regulations 8, 13 and 14)
47 The terms ‘charged’ and ‘live’ have different meanings; they are not defined in
the Regulations so they take their ordinary meaning. ‘Live’ means equipment that is
at a voltage by being connected to a source of electricity. ‘Charged’ means that the
item has acquired a charge either because it is live or because it has become
charged by other means, such as static or induction charging, or has retained or
regained a charge due to capacitance effects even though it may be disconnected
from the rest of the system.

Live work
50 Live work is work on or near conductors that are accessible and ‘live’ or ‘charged’.
Note that testing of live exposed conductors using a test instrument is live work.

?
 
We all have to start somewhere, and it sounds like the OP has the crucial common sense element. Good idea to practise on a rig in your garage. You can practise continuity tests and insulation resistance tests with everything dead (or ok, dead when not sending 500v through it!). MFT's will usually tell you if you are connected to a live supply (though this does not remove the need to prove dead first). Whatever MFT you get please obtain and study the manual so you know exactly what it is doing.
Many MFT's are on ebay because they are older models that don't have features that are frequently needed these days, for example 240v dc insulation tests, or no-trip loop impedance tests designed to not activate an RCD. If something is cheap there is usually a reason!

At risk of being shot - there are some really good youtube videos about testing, as well as some positively scary ones. If you want a recommendation you could do worse that to study the videos made by John Ward. (Google "John Ward Testing"). Be safe!
 
Having a test rig to get some experience in a reasonably safe manner is a good start. My 2p worth of advice would be:
  • The supply to the test rig has to be RCD protected. Double-check the house has working RCD protection on the sockets.
  • Double-check that the socket RCD protection is not shared by the light circuit, otherwise when you invariably trip it you would end up in darkness.
  • Have the test-rig supply from a plug and 3A fuse to the rig. A low value HRC fuse will serve to limit the fault energy better than a typical MCB in a CU.
  • If you want to measure a test-rig RCD or RCBO trip-behaviour with the MFT then put the MFT's L & N leads on the RCD load as you normally would do, but put the MFT's E lead to the test-rig N before the RCD being tested (instead of the supply E). That way the trip-current used by the MFT will be an imbalance as seen on the test rig, but not on the house RCD (so it should not trip).
 
Mike Johnson said:
What ever you buy make sure you buy it with a Credit Card not PayPal, they just closed a resolution on my account even though I did not receive the item, the seller some how managed to get a Royal Mail tracking that said I had received even though I had not, no recourse to PayPal, but you could get reimbursed by your Credit Card.
Click to expand...
PayPal are appalling for protection both with business accounts and personal accounts.
 
pc1966 said:
If you want to measure a test-rig RCD or RCBO trip-behaviour with the MFT then put the MFT's L & N leads on the RCD load as you normally would do, but put the MFT's E lead to the test-rig N before the RCD being tested (instead of the supply E). That way the trip-current used by the MFT will be an imbalance as seen on the test rig, but not on the house RCD (so it should not trip).
Click to expand...
Genius, I would have thought of that.
 
pc1966 said:
If you want to measure a test-rig RCD or RCBO trip-behaviour with the MFT then put the MFT's L & N leads on the RCD load as you normally would do, but put the MFT's E lead to the test-rig N before the RCD being tested (instead of the supply E). That way the trip-current used by the MFT will be an imbalance as seen on the test rig, but not on the house RCD (so it should not trip).
Click to expand...
Any idea why this wouldn't work on a 30ma RCD fused spur for a whirlpool bath? There was a 30ma RCD on the CU too. I had phase and neutral probes on the load, and earth probe on the incoming neutral, and both RCD's tripped each time. I put it down to it being an older device, but other thoughts welcome!
 
timhoward said:
Any idea why this wouldn't work on a 30ma RCD fused spur for a whirlpool bath? There was a 30ma RCD on the CU too. I had phase and neutral probes on the load, and earth probe on the incoming neutral, and both RCD's tripped each time. I put it down to it being an older device, but other thoughts welcome!
Click to expand...
Two rcds on the same run would need some discrimination not really a good design though in my book.
 
Pete999 said:
Two rcds on the same run would need some discrimination not really a good design though in my book.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. Someone else changed the CU and didn't reconnect what they (understandably) thought was a shower circuit because they couldn't find it. Left a nice sticker saying so too. I found it was feeding the whirlpool and it will be changed to normal spur in due course.
Question was more an academic question about why the normal method of only tripping a downstream RCD might not have worked.
 
If you do get one .- EDS. 54 Silver Lonnen, Newcastle upon Tyne NE5 2HD Have calibration days from time to time.
Give them a ring , they are a good bunch.
 
timhoward said:
Question was more an academic question about why the normal method of only tripping a downstream RCD might not have worked.
Click to expand...
Ideally a RCD trips on the deliberate test current.

In practice they can trip on switching spikes even when there is no fault. My oven, for example is on a 32A RCBO and maybe once in 6 months or so trips it when switching off. So at least I get my pizza cooked first...
 
I'd go so far as to say ALL MFT tests are 'live tests' on the spirit of EAWR (Injection of a charge into a cable them males that cable charged)
Click to expand...
Continuity tests inject a few volts with very limited current, so there isn't really a tangible electrical hazard present. The 5V supply in a USB or HDMI cable carries higher risk and a 9V PP3 battery higher still.

Insulation tests provide a high enough voltage to shock, although the current is again very limited, typically 1mA, so unlikely to cause physiological effects. However there is a risk of consequential accident from the shock, such as falling off a ladder.

The risk of life-changing or fatal shock from a 230V mains supply is so much higher, that it is misleading to lump all tests under the same banner as far as risk management is concerned and I don't think that is the intention of the EAWR text.
 

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Steve T

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