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Discuss New Consumer Unit - Generic Schedule of Test Results - Reference Method in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Just trying to get something straight in my mind. I've been looking at the Electrical Safety Council's Guidance 6 for changing a consumer unit in a domestic premises. They say that if the customer does not wish for a full EICR then the pre-work survey required before the CU change should include an internal visual inspection of the existing CU and an external visual inspection of other readily accessible parts of the installation. In complying with this requirment the installer may not be able to identify the reference method for each circuit's installation. Is it acceptable to put NV (not verified) in column 7 (Reference Method) of the Generic Schedule of Test Results?
 
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D

Deleted member 26818

The EIC should really only refer to the work carried out.
Unless you instaled the cables, then the reference method is not something that is required to be noted.
As such N/A would be appropriate.
If you do wish to make a note of the reference method, then by all means do so.
If you use N/V, then I would suggest you make a note in the section for comments on existing installation.
 
O

oldtimer

Well prior to a CU change yes I give it a visual but I also do a global IR test with LN jointed plus a Ze test and check the earthing but I do not give the customer these details mind you I had a customer phone up saying a guy could do it a lot cheaper but he would like a copy of the test results and as always in this situation I say Mmmmmmm cant seem to find them but I will email them if I find them. They think that sucker is doing my job for me but this sucker just does not email them back.
 
But how can you be sure of the suitability of your fuses/MCB's for the cable sizes depending on reference method? I.e. 16A type B mcb cannot be used for 2.5mm method 103.
 
SS that is a very good question and surprised it's not raised it's head before, quite right method 103 will only allow you to carry 13.5amps on a 2.5mm cable.

So if you did a CU changed and saw a lighting circuit on a 32 amp MCB would you then replace it like for like, doubt it you would change it to a more suitable breaker, so because you find an immersion circuit say on an existing 16amp breaker, without confirming the erection method should you automatically refit it on the same size breaker??
 
That's what the limitations bock is for I regard that box as my get out of jail box lol
 
SS that is a very good question and surprised it's not raised it's head before, quite right method 103 will only allow you to carry 13.5amps on a 2.5mm cable.

So if you did a CU changed and saw a lighting circuit on a 32 amp MCB would you then replace it like for like, doubt it you would change it to a more suitable breaker, so because you find an immersion circuit say on an existing 16amp breaker, without confirming the erection method should you automatically refit it on the same size breaker??
I think you'd have to make the call as a competent person-what is the rating of the immersion element, is it 'fused down' in the tank cupboard, how much of the run is at method 103, is there any sign of damage if accessible, etc etc.
 
I think you'd have to make the call as a competent person-what is the rating of the immersion element, is it 'fused down' in the tank cupboard, how much of the run is at method 103, is there any sign of damage if accessible, etc etc.
Well that's destroyed that Sunday afternoon debate, and yes exactly there is very little I have done in this industry that is pure black or white, and so many grey areas.

I was just trying to highlight that quite often we need to use and understand what the regulations are there for as guidance and sometimes you need to make decisions based on other factors as well ..........

How is it going there IQ???
 
Well that's destroyed that Sunday afternoon debate, and yes exactly there is very little I have done in this industry that is pure black or white, and so many grey areas.

I was just trying to highlight that quite often we need to use and understand what the regulations are there for as guidance and sometimes you need to make decisions based on other factors as well ..........

How is it going there IQ???
Great thanks Malc, too hot though ;)
It looks like a grey area all round when replacing a consumer unit but technically your responsibility is limited to the work that you have carried out with the following conditions:

1 The work must not impair the safety of the existing installation

2 You are not required to upgrade existing circuits to current standards in order for them to be connected to the new consumer unit

3 Circuits that are defective or non-compliant in a way that would result in real and immediate danger must not be connected.
 
This thread might not be of much interest to the installer of that consumer unit-unbelievable...
 

Des 56

-
Arms
Esteemed
This thread might not be of much interest to the installer of that consumer unit-unbelievable...
I tend to agree completely with your post and I wouldn't for one moment consider doing the job for those prices myself.however,just take these points as a possible explanation and why in these days of the rich taking the pee out of the rest of the country,its no wonder the poor look for ways to get along


I see the guy is from Swansea,now take into account this being Wales, we live in a different world with our rates of income compared to most areas.if not all areas

B+Q sell consumer units to anybody for £50
If the installer is on the Dole,he may be getting 50 quid to live on as a single man
A days work to fit and test (if you believe the second part of this bit you are really taking this in)
There being no registration or tax fees to contend with and the added benefit of no certification or other admin costs

A clear profit of £100,that's 2 x 7 days dole
That is one big uplift in income, it leaves plenty of spare time for the next signing on day as well
 
I tend to agree completely with your post and I wouldn't for one moment consider doing the job for those prices myself.however,just take these points as a possible explanation and why in these days of the rich taking the pee out of the rest of the country,its no wonder the poor look for ways to get along


I see the guy is from Swansea,now take into account this being Wales, we live in a different world with our rates of income compared to most areas.if not all areas

B+Q sell consumer units to anybody for £50
If the installer is on the Dole,he may be getting 50 quid to live on as a single man
A days work to fit and test (if you believe the second part of this bit you are really taking this in)
There being no registration or tax fees to contend with and the added benefit of no certification or other admin costs

A clear profit of £100,that's 2 x 7 days dole
That is one big uplift in income, it leaves plenty of spare time for the next signing on day as well
You're absolutely correct and probably with the unemployment scenario too and that makes me so angry while we pay insurances, trade body memberships, CHAS fees, regulation update fees etc. etc.
 
N

nickblake

Its sunday ive been on the wine again lol so may have been mentioned , the dreaded shared neutral always worth considering if its an older property 1960's / 70's shared neutrals between the first floor landing light and ground floor lights for the 2 way switching was very common what was done was to switch feed the ground floor switch from the ground floor lighting circuit and the pinch the neutral from the first floor lighting circuit and strappers between them hence you end up with 2 circuits but the neutral is shared for the landing light complete pain in the butt when it come to new dual RCD boards , another thing i do is to give a quick insulation check on the circuits just to make sure that when you change the board there is no suprises when the RCD trips very common is a neutarl to earth fault in a socket where the screws for the face plate trap the neutral and basically short them out , no real effect old the old 3036 wired fuses but a pain on RCD boards , also remove a few sockets and check the wiring if you get a neutral earth revers it can cause problems and if they have done the PME at every socket where they link the neutral and earth to gether yes ive seen it done , ok ill shut up now lol where's ,my wine lol
 
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