Discuss new installtion (bonding) in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

I answer posts with compliant reasoning, not using my answers to inflate an ego, it's called 'on topic posting'. The last bit was mild humour, I knew you'd probably take it as you said, classic ego problem again...

I see your posts time and again making assumptions on members backgrounds and experience levels just because they dare to question you, another classic ego symptom.

As for BS7671 being 'just a guide', it's a 'guide' that UK electrical contractors might someday need to prove compliance in court etc. "In my opinion your honour" doesn't quite cut it in that situation-I'll stick to the book.
 
I answer posts with compliant reasoning, not using my answers to inflate an ego, it's called 'on topic posting'. The last bit was mild humour, I knew you'd probably take it as you said, classic ego problem again...

I see your posts time and again making assumptions on members backgrounds and experience levels just because they dare to question you, another classic ego symptom.

As for BS7671 being 'just a guide', it's a 'guide' that UK electrical contractors might someday need to prove compliance in court etc. "In my opinion your honour" doesn't quite cut it in that situation-I'll stick to the book.

Haha, ...still nothing relevant to the thread topic then, just more sarcasm, ...grow-up man!!!

Think your probably talking more about yourself here, ...you really do need to look back at some of your own posts, before throwing stones in my direction. If i have an ego problem, you most certainly do, especially if anyone dares question your posts.

But have no fear, you can count on me questioning your posts, as and when necessary!!! ...lol!!!

And on that note, i'm off to my bed, can't really be arsed with you anymore tonight....
 
ok...the steel (being just there to strut the wooden ceiling beams...is > 999 meg ohms..so doesnt count as ecp for bonding purposes....i had read up, an apparently the nic are saying over 7k ohms is the recommended cut off point however most electricains say 23k ohms....
i do know what bonding is for...(it aint getting to know your clients well) ...gas safe wont allow ANY thing elec conncted in their box...
coz their paranoid...so ok i had to run a difficult route to in inside of the building where the gas main enters....and before any branch offs and connect to the MEt as advised....many thanks everyone...

- - - Updated - - -

ok...the steel (being just there to strut the wooden ceiling beams...is > 999 meg ohms..so doesnt count as ecp for bonding purposes....i had read up, an apparently the nic are saying over 7k ohms is the recommended cut off point however most electricains say 23k ohms....
i do know what bonding is for...(it aint getting to know your clients well) ...gas safe wont allow ANY thing elec conncted in their box...
coz their paranoid...so ok i had to run a difficult route to in inside of the building where the gas main enters....and before any branch offs and connect to the MEt as advised....many thanks everyone...
 
Excellent, so no ufer grounding or extraneous-conductive tied rebar-job on! ;)
 
Re: The cross bonding at the boiler, as far as I know this was a corgi reg a while back, but has since been discontinued under Gas Safe, although manufacture instructions may take precedence.

One of the many tradesmen I know is gas safe, and they only have to have Part-P limited scope, at least according to my mate.
I know that one or two of the lads on here are heating engineers, I wonder if they would care to comment on this?
 
Excellent, so no ufer grounding or extraneous-conductive tied rebar-job on! ;)

Haha, ...Still trying sarcasm because you can't grasp it!!

OK, let's see if you can answer this without the childish sarcasm.... Same situation, services coming into the building replaced with plastic at some stage, but all internal pipework remains metallic but the building in question this time, is a multi story block of say 30 residential flats.

You (or your company) rewire one of these flats, complete with new CU etc. Are you going to bond those services to the flats MET/EMT as usual, or not, ...and why??
 
Haha, ...Still trying sarcasm because you can't grasp it!!

OK, let's see if you can answer this without the childish sarcasm.... Same situation, services coming into the building replaced with plastic at some stage, but all internal pipework remains metallic but the building in question this time, is a multi story block of say 30 residential flats.

You (or your company) rewire one of these flats, complete with new CU etc. Are you going to bond those services to the flats MET/EMT as usual, or not, ...and why??

I'll have an effin' go.....

Each flat is a self contained unit with it's own dedicated supply. Therefore metallic services entering a flat are extraneous conductive parts relative to that flat....they may therefore introduce a potential from another source to the flat they are entering. As a result they should be main bonded at the point of entry to each flat to the same flats MET.
 
I'll have an effin' go.....

Each flat is a self contained unit with it's own dedicated supply. Therefore metallic services entering a flat are extraneous conductive parts relative to that flat....they may therefore introduce a potential from another source to the flat they are entering. As a result they should be main bonded at the point of entry to each flat to the same flats MET.

Exactly wirepuller!! Coupled to the fact, that the main riser tee's to each flats service pipes can be expected to also be bonded within each of the other 29 flats. The fact that the incoming main service pipes to the building has been changed to plastic is irrelevant... Which was the very point i made in the first place... Oh well, at least we get there in the end, unless of course Mr IQ wants to totally disagree again??
 
Exactly wirepuller!! Coupled to the fact, that the main riser tee's to each flats service pipes can be expected to also be bonded within each of the other 29 flats. The fact that the incoming main service pipes to the building has been changed to plastic is irrelevant... Which was the very point i made in the first place... Oh well, at least we get there in the end, unless of course Mr IQ wants to totally disagree again??

I'm not sure this is relevant to IQ's point which you are arguing.
The scenario you quote above is for 30 separate installs which happen to be housed in one building.....if it is one install in one building then I agree with IQ.....all services which are ECP's will be bonded at the point of entry,including steels to a single MET....whats in contact with them after that matters not.
In your flats scenario there are effectively 30 separate installations.
 
I'm not sure this is relevant to IQ's point which you are arguing.
The scenario you quote above is for 30 separate installs which happen to be housed in one building.....if it is one install in one building then I agree with IQ.....all services which are ECP's will be bonded at the point of entry,including steels to a single MET....whats in contact with them after that matters not.
In your flats scenario there are effectively 30 separate installations.

Correct, and fair do's if the re-bar has been brought out and bonded to the MET, but in most circumstances a typical multi-story concrete framed building sitting on ground level foundations without a basement will not typically be brought out... Thing is, most of my working life has been dealing with these types of building structures, and i know full well that, no matter how hard you try not too, you will always get a good reading off of any metal pipework that passes through the buildings structure, including the metal stairwell hand rails, that are almost always welded to the concrete steelwork!!!

The chances are, that a multi story building typically offices and the like, will be of a similar arrangement, fewer separate installations maybe, but separate installations just the same... Very unlikely that a single installation will be distributed throughout such a building. Not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, just highly unlikely...

As i say, i was only trying to make a simple statement originally, in that having a plastic incoming service, doesn't always mean there is no requirement to bond existing internal metallic pipework. Hell i even stated that it's always best to conduct a survey and/or test said pipework, can't get any fairer than that.... But it seems, it's still not to everyones liking. ...lol!!
 
If the incoming pipe to these flats over a course of time as been replaced by plastic, where is the old metallic installation now getting it's potential from ??

We can assume that it maybe picking up a potential if there is gas connections it is joining to such as a boiler but these flats are electric only.

We could say that the metallic pipes maybe picking up an earth through metal work inside the building, but lets say that because it is a large building(30 flats) and it is old there is no metalwork in it, it's all mortar, brick and wood

So plastic incomer, metal pipe throughout the building.................... will it need bonding??
 
If the incoming pipe to these flats over a course of time as been replaced by plastic, where is the old metallic installation now getting it's potential from ??

Another reason to bond any incoming metal service pipe at each flat, as sure as eggs are eggs any original pipe will be picking up a potential from the buildings concrete steelwork!!

We can assume that it maybe picking up a potential if there is gas connections it is joining to such as a boiler but these flats are electric only.

Matters not...

We could say that the metallic pipes maybe picking up an earth through metal work inside the building, but lets say that because it is a large building(30 flats) and it is old there is no metalwork in it, it's all mortar, brick and wood

We have established early on in this fiasco that this is a multi-story concrete framed and floor building.

So plastic incomer, metal pipe throughout the building.................... will it need bonding??

Yes!!

It's all hypothetical Malc, i was just making a point that an incoming plastic service pipe doesn't always mean that you don't need to bond the existing internal metallic pipework. It's now been blown out of all proportion by a guy that won't admit that His original statement was wrong and that there are situations/circumstances where it is irrelevant whether the incoming service is plastic or otherwise!!!
 
Well mate I always like a good argument. Like you Col and the amount of time we have been at this, there is very little chance of every finding a once size fits all solution.

That is why I'm not a great lover of the guides, they have their place but today they are deemed to be fact rather than a guide by some of the newer lads in the industry.

That is why I posted what I did in the hope it would just make some think. There is always the possibility because of the plastic main service that the internal service though metallic will not introduce a potential. I personally in any flat install would test the internal pipework inside the dwelling to make sure it was extraneous, especially in today's industry and the common use/replacement of old services to composites, therefore it would not be getting bonding as a rote.
 
Well mate I always like a good argument. Like you Col and the amount of time we have been at this, there is very little chance of every finding a once size fits all solution.

That is why I'm not a great lover of the guides, they have their place but today they are deemed to be fact rather than a guide by some of the newer lads in the industry.

I like a good argument too, lol!!! But when you get the childish sarcasm to prop-up his argument it's gets to be something quite different.

I don't disregard the Reg's, just don't always need them to tell me how to do things. As you say, like yourself i don't live and die by them. Seems that a lot of quotations of this Reg or that, is looking for easy ways out of doing things, instead of doing the job correctly in the first place these days....
 
I like a good argument too, lol!!! But when you get the childish sarcasm to prop-up his argument it's gets to be something quite different.

I don't disregard the Reg's, just don't always need them to tell me how to do things. As you say, like yourself i don't live and die by them. Seems that a lot of quotations of this Reg or that, is looking for easy ways out of doing things, instead of doing the job correctly in the first place these days....

Oh do grow up man, childish sarcasm to prop up my argument? Using the scenario of an installation on the moon? Might it have been humour? Lighten up and stop taking yourself so seriously!
With relevance to this thread and the original question, as has been mentioned above (not by me) what I wrote was 100% correct!

Now jog on and let's agree to differ-the strength of this forum is the broad experience of many members from the domestic-only electrician to the likes of you and the larger projects and everyone in between. As Malcolm said, there isn't a one size fits all solution.....
 

Reply to new installtion (bonding) in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock