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chrers jib, yeah should be a good number really!

got another wee question:-

the tray im installing is well out of reach and is gonna be unseen when a plynth unit is made to cover it all up.
however the back end of the shop (approx half its length) is gonna have a mezaninne floor fitted, with a staircase on the left hand side against the wall, my worry is this, when potential public is walking up the stairs, when there half way up, if they really wanted to they could touch my cable tray and the cables on it, should i be concerned by this or??????
 
can you run a big bit of trunking through there?

i dont know about regs wise.... its late

but i thought ah so what if they touch....but what if they pull lol

oh and i always get the waterpump plyers on the edges of the flange of the tray and squeeze em together yknow where the v cuts are makes em look proper bo!

another idea in the stairwell bolt a peice of tray upturned over the actual peice holding the cable thatll learn em!
 
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yeah i just dont trust it, i like to see a nice big seperate earth. its only gonna be 10-15m run at the very most, there is a water supply coming into the unit so im gonna stick a bond on that as well. as well as a supp bond to me cable tray? gonna do some reading tongight on rcd's in commercials or is it simply gonna be rcbo's on everything as there will be no cables below 50mm etc?

why would you supp bond the tray? it is not extraneous is it????
 
good idea that jibtech, been on site today and client did say he could incorporate some sort of removable boxing to cover it all up, so will see whats best a bit nearer the time.

shakey, i was thinking with there been around 50-60m of tray that there could be potential for some kind of problem to occur and was just gonna bond it for peace of mind really, spech as the majority of cabling is gonna be t & e on it. let us know either way me old fruit about the best solution (if any) lol
i must admit i do generally go over the top with stuff, like if it needs just 2 clips/cleats ill give it 3 etc lol

rich

just to add to the above aswell:

the ceiling is 5.5m high and ive got conduit running to through box's etc for the lighting connections. im thinking of using them klix thingys! is there likely to be any sort of problem with the actual connection been 5.5m high? it may be awkward to get to once the shop is full of stock and shelving etc.

or am i worrying to much as usual?
 
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with regards tray ,the question is ;is it an exposed conductive part ?
this answer is the regs regard it so .first look up exposed conductive part then look up electrical equipment in the definitions
klik assemblies make life easier for maintenance ,lamp replacement luminaire replacement ,testing ....if they are drawing a lot of current consider a plug and socket arrangement
 
with regards tray ,the question is ;is it an exposed conductive part ?
this answer is the regs regard it so .first look up exposed conductive part then look up electrical equipment in the definitions
klik assemblies make life easier for maintenance ,lamp replacement luminaire replacement ,testing ....if they are drawing a lot of current consider a plug and socket arrangement

well i dont think a tray is either exposed or extraneous

it is not part of any electrical equipment (so cant be exposed conductive part)

and is unlikely to be an extraneous conductive part, unless its attatched to structural steelwork etc

Trouble with supp bonding, it is not always safer to do it, it is safer not to do it

it could be entriely isoalted from the electrical system, but you are 'introducing' a possible fault path by bonding?

why do i feel a big discussion coming on:p
 
oh we love these "discussions":p
extraneous conductive parts are liable to introduce a potential from outside the equipotential zone and need equipotential bonding not supplementry bonding
with regards tray ,i'm just quoting definitions, bond /dont bond the choice is yours
 
cheers guys, guess its always gonna be someone does it this way and another that way, when i was working in nottingham converting an old school in to appartments they had us 10mm bonding all the rsj's as well.
dont know what to do for the best really, i can see how it can be a problem bonding the tray but can also see a problem i f i dont! lol.

as with the lighting, theres gonna be 3 banks of 2no 150w hid's ( i think!) so prsuming klix will be suffiicent, im also toying with the idea of giving these 3 lighting banks there own supplys as well (remembering your recent thread wayne about problems with these on a smaller scale tho)

should i worry about the klix connection been probably really hard to get to once its all finished? then again what happens at other commercial buildings same thing init really

cheers

rich
 
oh we love these "discussions":p
extraneous conductive parts are liable to introduce a potential from outside the equipotential zone and need equipotential bonding not supplementry bonding
with regards tray ,i'm just quoting definitions, bond /dont bond the choice is yours

hmmmm Wayne old chap, so why do we supp bond extraneous in bathrooms then?:p

or did before the 17th:)
 
once the "kliks" made and tested then it just plug /unplug the klik doesnt need touching
the problem i had with was one with an uncommon design(f**k im doing some long words) not commonly used
 
ahh i see, the light fittings arnt on site yet, but like you say therll be a plug in the actual fitting coming from the klickety klix so thats ok then. in your opinion would it be beneficial having the main part of the shop on seperate mcbs for the lighting, like i said above? ive got enough spare ways in the board so...

ps on the e/lighting side i think im just gonna do a couple of circtuit straight from the board with key switches positioned appropriately.

rich
 
hmmmm Wayne old chap, so why do we supp bond extraneous in bathrooms then?:p

or did before the 17th:)
without getting tied in regulation knots ,your talking about bonding in addition to the main within a special installation,
tray is still defined as exposed:)

ahh i see, the light fittings arnt on site yet, but like you say therll be a plug in the actual fitting coming from the klickety klix so thats ok then. in your opinion would it be beneficial having the main part of the shop on seperate mcbs for the lighting, like i said above? ive got enough spare ways in the board so...

ps on the e/lighting side i think im just gonna do a couple of circtuit straight from the board with key switches positioned appropriately.

rich
someone more used to shopfitting desgn(tony?)can advise you best there
 
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without getting tied in regulation knots ,your talking about bonding in addition to the main within a special installation,
tray is still defined as exposed:)


someone more used to shopfitting desgn(tony?)can advise you best there

is it Wayne, think about it, why is tray exposed?

does it meet the defenition:rolleyes:
 
im talking definitions see post 26

ok wayne,

exposed conductive part:

"a conductive part of equipment which can be touched and which is not a live part but which may become live under fault conditions"

(i know you know it Wayne, this is so everyone else can see straight off what we are discussing;))

looking at equipment (electrical equipment) are you saying it will come under 'accessory':rolleyes:?

Is it an item for "distribution or utilisation of electrical energy"?:rolleyes:

lets say i have a metal beam in the ceiling in the roof an factory. It is not connected to the structural steelwork so is not extraneous

If there is no cables near it, then it would not be an exposed conductive part

But if a lay a cable along it, would it then be an exposed conductive part????

And heres another thing

we are discussing BONDING the tray

but we also agree that it is not extraneous, so if it is an exposed conductive part, then connecting it to the MET would be via a CPC (ie earthing) by the regs defenition

if you were coneecting it an extraneous conductive part, (or another exposed conductive part) then that would be SUPPLEMENTARY bonding

You could not BOND it to the MET

so where is he connecting it to?


hmmmm, interesting one this:)

i have heard this argument before about back boxes as well
 
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part of the definition of electrical equipment states ; wiring systems, accessories, appliances and luminaires.
exposed conductive parts are connected using just a protective conductor(411.3.1.1)
if you use the beam as part of you wiring system by definition it becomes exposed conductive part (by strict definition use common sense)
supplementry bonding is in addition to main bonding


back boxes ...see snags and solutions earthing and bonding (3rd edit)snag 21
shakeys my hero:D
 
part of the definition of electrical equipment states ; wiring systems, accessories, appliances and luminaires.
exposed conductive parts are connected using just a protective conductor(411.3.1.1)
if you use the beam as part of you wiring system by definition it becomes exposed conductive part (by strict definition use common sense)
supplementry bonding is in addition to main bonding


back boxes ...see snags and solutions earthing and bonding (3rd edit)snag 21
shakeys my hero:D

i will dig it out tommorow Wayne and have a look, I had my mate, who is the area engineer for the NIC around for tea and bickies today, should have brought it up with him.....we shared some interesting view points.....:p

oh and Wayne, you are my hero as well

*sniffs*
 

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