part P in garage/workshop

[uksel]

a friend of mine is having a shed/workshop built at the rear of his house. he asked me today if (with it being a workshop/shed/garage) do the sockets still have to comply with the positioning requirements of part P? or can he place them where he likes?

also what reference would i be looking for in the on-site guide for clarification on the matter?

it may or may not be worth noting that the building is not joined onto the house

many thanks...

 

[acat]

He can put them where he likes socket/switch positions are for new dwellings only. Its not the OSG really its building regs




Chris

 

[uksel]

thank you chris

 

[flukey]

a friend of mine is having a shed/workshop built at the rear of his house. he asked me today if (with it being a workshop/shed/garage) do the sockets still have to comply with the positioning requirements of part P? or can he place them where he likes?

also what reference would i be looking for in the on-site guide for clarification on the matter?

it may or may not be worth noting that the building is not joined onto the house

many thanks...

work in a detached garage or shed is not notifiable.however, the cable from the house to it is

 

[uksel]

thanks again, i had a quick look in the electricians guide to part p earlier on today and it stated that special locations such as shed's garages and greenhouses still come under the scope for part p

not 100% but it could have been in section 7, i will clarify tomorrow and reply back

 

[scotsparky]

As its a garage it may be a wise idea to get the sockets up high so there is less chance of machanical dammage. Possible putting them at 1200mm so easy access and out the way of the junk getting put in the garrage.

 

[Spudnik]

work in a detached garage or shed is not notifiable.however, the cable from the house to it is

Are you sure about that?

 

[flukey]

Are you sure about that?

thats what my assessor said.
attached garages notifiable, detached not.
the cable to a detached garage is notifiable as it runs through the garden.
ive attached this link for you jason
Frequently asked questions :: Is electrical installation work within a detached garage or garden shed notifiable?

i know your not registered with nic jason but wouldnt hurt to have this pocket guide showing what is and what isnt notifiable as a reference
http://www.accordplumbing.com/images/PockeGuide208.pdf

a friend of mine is having a shed/workshop built at the rear of his house. he asked me today if (with it being a workshop/shed/garage) do the sockets still have to comply with the positioning requirements of part P? or can he place them where he likes?

also what reference would i be looking for in the on-site guide for clarification on the matter?

it may or may not be worth noting that the building is not joined onto the house

many thanks...

"unless the dwelling is for persons whose reach is limited the requirements would not apply to kitchens and garages but specifically only to rooms that visitors would normally use"

 

[Spudnik]

Ah fair enough.

Just had a look at App Doc P and it also confirms this.

Interesting though.

One would have thought it was considering the likely use of the sockets in there.

Shows how many external buildings i have done. And i notified them

 

[flukey]

Ah fair enough.

Just had a look at App Doc P and it also confirms this.

Interesting though.

One would have thought it was considering the likely use of the sockets in there.

Shows how many external buildings i have done. And i notified them

too true jason, once again shows how flawed this part poo is

 

[andyb]

Ah fair enough.

Just had a look at App Doc P and it also confirms this.

Interesting though.

One would have thought it was considering the likely use of the sockets in there.

Shows how many external buildings i have done. And i notified them

Jason

Can you point out where in the Part P doc does it say this.

I've had a quick look and can't find it.

 

[Steve D]

I have a job in a detached garage where I am replacing a 1.5mm swa cable that runs buried in a garden, for a 4mm swa cable. It's not a 'new circuit' as such, so is this notifiable?

Cheers
Steve

 

[acat]

Yes I think it is albiet its an existing circuit you are not replacing like for like the cable size has changed.





Chris

 

[flukey]

I have a job in a detached garage where I am replacing a 1.5mm swa cable that runs buried in a garden, for a 4mm swa cable. It's not a 'new circuit' as such, so is this notifiable?

Cheers
Steve

i would say its notifiable

 

[Spudnik]

Jason

Can you point out where in the Part P doc does it say this.

I've had a quick look and can't find it.

Page 8, additional note f, at the bottom of the page.

 

[stretchyboy]

This is something i've found on-line
"Part P of the Building Regulations covers installations intended to operate at LV or ELV. These are:

• In a dwelling (houses or flats);
• Dwellings and business premises with a common supply (eg: shops or pubs with a flat above);
• Common access areas in blocks of flats (corridors & staircases);
• Shared amenities in blocks of flats (gymnasiums and laundries, but excluding lift power supplies):
• In or on land associated with the buildings (eg: fixed garden lighting and pond pumps); in outbuildings such as sheds, detached garages and greenhouses.

Therefore, electrical contractors and installers working on outdoor installations, including outdoor wiring accessory installation, should be ‘Competent Persons’, and should therefore be well versed in all aspects of outdoor electrical installation practise, especially if they are involved with it."

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Page 8 contains 'Additional Notes' and the first note, note a, states that the following work is notifiable to building control bodies:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]extensions to circuits which are associated with special locations, such as bathrooms. This would include electrical installation work carried out in a bedroom containing a shower (Regulation 601-08-02 of BS 7671 refers). This is what is being referred to in the Voltimum newsletter which you quote. [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]extensions to circuits associated with special installations, such as gardens. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Note f further states that work in detached garages and sheds is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring. As indicated in the Napit checklist, this applies also to greenhouses.[/FONT]

 

[flukey]

This is something i've found on-line
"Part P of the Building Regulations covers installations intended to operate at LV or ELV. These are:

• In a dwelling (houses or flats);
• Dwellings and business premises with a common supply (eg: shops or pubs with a flat above);
• Common access areas in blocks of flats (corridors & staircases);
• Shared amenities in blocks of flats (gymnasiums and laundries, but excluding lift power supplies):
• In or on land associated with the buildings (eg: fixed garden lighting and pond pumps); in outbuildings such as sheds, detached garages and greenhouses.

Therefore, electrical contractors and installers working on outdoor installations, including outdoor wiring accessory installation, should be ‘Competent Persons’, and should therefore be well versed in all aspects of outdoor electrical installation practise, especially if they are involved with it."

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Page 8 contains 'Additional Notes' and the first note, note a, states that the following work is notifiable to building control bodies:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]extensions to circuits which are associated with special locations, such as bathrooms. This would include electrical installation work carried out in a bedroom containing a shower (Regulation 601-08-02 of BS 7671 refers). This is what is being referred to in the Voltimum newsletter which you quote. [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]extensions to circuits associated with special installations, such as gardens. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Note f further states that work in detached garages and sheds is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring. As indicated in the Napit checklist, this applies also to greenhouses.[/FONT]

so you are agreeing with me, just the feed to the garage is notifiable

 

[uksel]

could note f imply that if the workshop is a new build, with all new wiring then all work is still notifiable and the note is in reference to an existing building?

 

[flukey]

could note f imply that if the workshop is a new build, with all new wiring then all work is still notifiable and the note is in reference to an existing building?

the wording on the links i posted says only the cable to a detached garage or shed is notifiable. whatever is in the shed is not. if it is a new build you will obviously have to run a feed to the garage so i would saythe whole job becomes notifiable.

 

[stretchyboy]

It doesn't say new build it says new wiring, so that would include alterations to existing wouldn't it

 

[andyb]

Page 8, additional note f, at the bottom of the page.

I see that Jason.

To me, that just says that they are not special locations.

 

[Spudnik]

To me, that just says that they are not special locations.

Andy,

We have drifted slightly off topic from the OP's original question.

We are now debating whether work in outbuildings has to be notified, which according to Pat P, does not.

"f. Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work within them is only notifiable, if it involves new outdoor wiring."

 

[flukey]

It doesn't say new build it says new wiring, so that would include alterations to existing wouldn't it

not notifiable also= modifying a final circuit (eg adding a lighting point fused connection unit or socket outlet) this would all require new wiring but is still not notifiable as its in the garage/shed and not in the garden

 

[Guest123]

http://www.elecsa.co.uk/downloads/TableofNotifiableWork.pdf

 

[Spudnik]

http://www.elecsa.co.uk/downloads/TableofNotifiableWork.pdf

Well thats confused the hell outta me!

I think ill stick to notifying.

 

[andyb]

Andy,


"f. Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work within them is only notifiable, if it involves new outdoor wiring."

As I said, that just tells you that a shed is not a special location.

But thats a world away from saying that work in it is not notifiable. Any new circuit would need notifying just as it would if you did the same work in the house in a room that is not a special location.

 

[flukey]

Well thats confused the hell outta me!

I think ill stick to notifying.

if your local authority and scheme provider say its not notifiable and list it as not notifiable in their literature i wouldnt bother.
seems like elecsa have other ideas though so if you are with them then i would abide by their rules. just as well im not with them then

As I said, that just tells you that a shed is not a special location.

But thats a world away from saying that work in it is not notifiable. Any new circuit would need notifying just as it would if you did the same work in the house in a room that is not a special location.

it also says in bold writing " Work within them is only notifiable, if it involves new outdoor wiring."

 

[Steve D]

So I'm assuming an outside security light is always notificable ?

 

[Spudnik]

As I said, that just tells you that a shed is not a special location.

But thats a world away from saying that work in it is not notifiable. Any new circuit would need notifying just as it would if you did the same work in the house in a room that is not a special location.

Im not really sure what you are getting at to be honest.

As i said, im still going to notify regardless.

 

[stretchyboy]

I've always thought that 'Outdoor' referred to outside the main property, which seems to be what Elecsa are saying too as they say attached garage= not notifiable but remote garage is notifiable. Some people seem to be assuming that outdoor means out in the open/ garden and doesn't include sheds etc.

 

[flukey]

I've always thought that 'Outdoor' referred to outside the main property, which seems to be what Elecsa are saying too as they say attached garage= not notifiable but remote garage is notifiable. Some people seem to be assuming that outdoor means out in the open/ garden and doesn't include sheds etc.

if you read the attachments i posted it clearly says cables run across the garden

 

[stretchyboy]

if you read the attachments i posted it clearly says cables run across the garden

really?

not notifiable also= modifying a final circuit (eg adding a lighting point fused connection unit or socket outlet) this would all require new wiring but is still not notifiable as its in the garage/shed and not in the garden

 

[flukey]

really?

keep up stretchy

Is electrical installation work within a detached garage or garden shed notifiable?

No, unless the work also involves the provision of a new circuit across the garden