POLL - Neutrals at switches

RWJ

RWJ

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Arms
As the title suggests

In respect to the debate in this thread http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...electrical-forum/33420-neutrals-switches.html


I've decided to launch a poll to gage response from the forum.

3 Answers
GOOD / ACCEPTABLE - If you think Neutrals at switches is OK
BAD / UNACCEPTABLE- If you think Neutrals at switches is NOT OK / WRONG
UNDECIDED - If you have no preference or are fence sitting (like me)

The poll is timed for 7 days...... So get polling
 
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At least 4 of the 'unacceptable' votes came from members with posts on this thread saying that they would take a neutral to the switch in some circumstances so the vote is not even as close as it seems lol!
 
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With nearly a 1000 views on this thread alone and god knows how many views on the closed thread, and less than 100 that bothered to vote, i suggest you couldn't come to any such meaningful conclusion....

In fact most of the posters on both treads have been by the same people that just can't seem to get past it!! Does that mean that there really looking for reassurance, of there views?? Maybe that niggling doubt at the back of there mind forces them to come back time and time again just to make sure ...lol!!! Your all free to do whatever you want to do ....As it's been stated many many times now, that there is nothing in your BRB bible against the practice, ....so carry on in your own sweet way!!!
 
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Engineer54 said:
With nearly a 1000 views on this thread alone and god knows how many views on the closed thread, and less than 100 that bothered to vote, i suggest you couldn't come to any such meaningful conclusion....

In fact most of the posters on both treads have been by the same people that just can't seem to get past it!! Does that mean that there really looking for reassurance, of there views?? Maybe that niggling doubt at the back of there mind forces them to come back time and time again just to make sure ...lol!!! Your all free to do whatever you want to do ....As it's been stated many many times now, that there is nothing in your BRB bible against the practice, ....so carry on in your own sweet way!!!
Click to expand...

I'm sure yours is the only relevent view E54.
 
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To ME, yes!! ...but i'm not you or any of the others here. I know what is and what isn't acceptable to myself!! You and the others have to decide for yourselves....
 
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IQ Electrical said:
The forum's just full of 'bodger jobbers' and my beloved Arsenal will win the league...
Click to expand...


Maybe not this year, but according to my 2 brothers and sister, and virtually the whole of one side of my family, next year for definite!!!
They have been Arsenal fans/supporters since they were out of nappies. ...Maybe even before!! lol!!!

As for the wanna be sarcasm, ....irrelevance rules!!!
 
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How different is it to wiring neutrals at the switch. I am in my apprenticeship and I have been taught the Switched Live method (using the neutral) as switching but my boss doesnt do this and just uses the brown and links them across different gangs. All the neutrals go into a connector block.

Can anyone show me any wiring diagrams where the neutrals are wired at the switch?
 
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I've always wired neutrals at the switches on every shower and cooker I've installed.

Immersions too.

Heating sytem FCUs.

Main switches.

.......................
 
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Ive got an extension to wire for Mrs.Miggins.........


Should I 3-plate the 5 up-lighters she wants or should I take the mains to the 2 gang switch?

Thanks in advance.







Smirk.
 
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hi all

another reason i take the live & neutral to the switch, when doing 2 way landing light i take a 3core from bottom of stairs to landing switch using brown and black as strappers an grey for neutral and then take twin from landing switch to light...... wait for it...... i'm probably in for it now!!!! bad practice and all that!

regards
gary
 
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Yip neutrals at switches rule. Easier too alter lighting in ceilings . one wire from one direction to move not three from different directions. No joint boxes in ceilings that you can`t access because of flooring and such like.
 
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well I for one am glad it`s a landslide victory if you like to call it that. after the last thread your coalition would have been worse than Vince Cable and George Osborne :)
 
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_42835449_swingometer_bbc_203.jpg

"as you can clearly see the neutral blues are in a massive lead and don't have to form a coalition with the cpc's to gain a majority win".
 
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I never saw them done any other way with my old firm. I thought it was fine except on numerous occasions I saw 35mm backboxes having the following cables:

Feed in
Feed out
Lights switch line
Shaver
Fan isolater


"This light switch won't screw back, I guess you're going to tell me I'm doing something wrong now."

As a wiring method though, it seems more logical and much easier than three plate.
 
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If im on a rewire and the customer wants 10 downlighters in the kitchen i prefer to take the neutrals to the switch using a deeper box. If its standard pendants I would just take the loops straight to the pendant.
 
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Its a big fat GOOD from me...do it all the time for spot or wall lights!!!!. almost as good as a 4mm2, 32amp radial circuit instead of a ring final............now there is another can of worms popped open..
 
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How much more expensive is it in reality to use 4mm cable for a radial, if you then subtract the extra time spent testing ring final circuits?
 
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Remember a job where the client wanted some Futronix dimmers fitting, most needed their own format backbox and neutrals. managed easy on top floor by poking at the cable capping and sliding a neutral down but i remember one room i had to chase about 5M just for a little cable... and my chisel was blunt, what a mess.
 
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I think it the best way due to not having to work on ladders when 2nd fixing so is a little quicker and easier, although the one time i didnt like it when i had a 4 way switch which had 3 2way circuits loop in loop out (3 x 1.5mm 3core, 6 x 1.5mm T&E) although it wasnt bad just took a while to dress correctly it was more the earths that caused the problem lol
 
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I see a lot of old heads 'we don't like change' seem to be taking exception to this??

There are a lot of arguments for why the link is at switches, but (only a quick scan), i dont see any arguments 'FOR' loop-in, other than, ...'i've always done it like that'...'it's the way i was shown'.

(this is where one of the old timers moan at me for not agreeing with their dinosaur methods ;-)
 
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Nothing wrong with having a neutral conductor at the switch, ....When It's Required!! Looping through switches for the sake of it, is a nonsense, and basically favoured by by those that have been in the game 5 minutes, for all the wrong reasons!!

You won't find this looping arrangement on ANY ''specified'' project, which should be telling telling them something, ...or maybe not, as most wouldn't be able to even get on a prestige project to know!!!

Probably the same with their love of radials over RFC, because they can't fault find, when they c**k it up!!

I'll stick to being a dinosaur if that's what it means, at least i know what i'm doing, which going by some of the posts these same people make here, ...Don't!!!
 
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Engineer54 said:
Nothing wrong with having a neutral conductor at the switch, ....When It's Required!! Looping through switches for the sake of it, is a nonsense, and basically favoured by by those that have been in the game 5 minutes, for all the wrong reasons!!

You won't find this looping arrangement on ANY ''specified'' project, which should be telling telling them something, ...or maybe not, as most wouldn't be able to even get on a prestige project to know!!!

Probably the same with their love of radials over RFC, because they can't fault find, when they c**k it up!!

I'll stick to being a dinosaur if that's what it means, at least i know what i'm doing, which going by some of the posts these same people make here, ...Don't!!!
Click to expand...

Last 2 sites i was on, barratt and taylor wimpey both specified neutrals at the switches. This was for blocks of 2,3 +4 town houses in the center of edinburgh. I'm not arguing against loop-in system, but STILL no one has given a valid reason FOR it.

And to insult people that 'have been in the game 5 mins' shows the kind of attitude that will struggle to keep up to modern methods and techniques. Although you may disagree with this method, it is becoming widely used as the norm aswel as the way its been taught in colleges during apprenticeships.

ps i don't use the 4mm radial method for skts etc, but how does that make it anymore difficult to fault find??
 
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Smudge said:
Last 2 sites i was on, barrett and taylor wimpey both specified neutrals at the switches. This was for blocks of 2,3 +4 town houses in the center of edinburgh. I'm not arguing against loop-in system, but STILL no one has given a valid reason FOR it.

And to insult people that 'have been in the game 5 mins' shows the kind of attitude that will struggle to keep up to modern methods and techniques. Although you may disagree with this method, it is becoming widely used as the norm as well as the way its been taught in colleges during apprenticeships.

ps i don't use the 4mm radial method for skits etc, but how does that make it anymore difficult to fault find??
Click to expand...

I'm talking proper ''Specified projects'' not whack it in as cheap as possible housing developments!!

I need to work to the highest international standards, all on prestige projects, so i can't and don't live in the past, as you have others believe. Your so-called modern methods, don't mean they are good methods, ...in fact when anyone preempt statements with ''modern'' over established, they are normally less rather than better!!

Well there is not much substance in quoting being taught at collage, as everyone and his dog knows that the standard of training within our industry these days isn't anywhere near what it needs to be, and that goes for a good number of the lecturers at these collages and training centres too....

My meaning on FRC/Raidials, is that there are far too many so-called new electricians out there, that are incapable of fault finding, especially FRC's... I make no apologies for my attitude as you put it, as the overall standard of electricians is falling away fast. Certainly from what i and many others here would consider as qualified electricians...
 
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Bean counters!
Someone must have worked out that it takes a few metres less cable to use the rose loop in method.
Think of all the houses that went up in the '60s and '70s, a lot of council housing - and pretty much every domestic lighting point was a pendant at the time (or a 3-plate batten for the bathroom).
On that scale, you're looking at hundreds of thousands of pounds

Just like the radial and ring argument, you use your engineering knowledge and judgement to choose the most appropriate method for the particular job.

Simon.
 
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RWJ

RWJ

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