Discuss Ring final circuit vs Radial final circuit in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi Matt,Reference your changeover relay,I don't know of a device specifically for this application as such but this might be something you could get an electrician to do for you but basicly if you connect this at the consumer unit you won't have to install another circuit.Your relay should be available at major electrical wholesalers(suppliers to the trade).
You would require an 8 pin plug in relay and base and a suitable mounting enclosure with din rail.You have 2 normally closed contacts and 2 normally open contacts and 2 commons and a coil contact(known as A1 andA2).The 2 sets of contacts would enable double pole switching.You mentioned previously that you have now a spare E7 circuit.Whenever you apply power to your coil say whenever the E7 comes on the relay would change over from normal tarrif to off peak and thence out to your circuit.The connections are straight foreward.Pm me if you need more detail.
 
You would require an 8 pin plug in relay and base and a suitable mounting enclosure with din rail.You have 2 normally closed contacts and 2 normally open contacts and 2 commons and a coil contact(known as A1 andA2).The 2 sets of contacts would enable double pole switching.You mentioned previously that you have now a spare E7 circuit.Whenever you apply power to your coil say whenever the E7 comes on the relay would change over from normal tarrif to off peak and thence out to your circuit.

Hi mrloy99, this sounds perfect, just what I require. I will ask some local sparks if they fancy the job perhaps. Thanks for the offer to PM as well.

As for my standard socket/light radial circuit, what do I need to think about when extending these?
For example, I have a circuit with JUST a twin socket point, what should I be looking for if I wanted to extend this by adding another twin socket?

From what I have read on this site, it is as straight forward as wiring another spur and taking note not to exceed the cable loading.

Kindest Regards,

Matt.
 
The circuit could most likely be extended useing 2.5mm cable to your additional socket,then if you wanted to supply your lighting also from this circuit,the normal practice would be to install a switched fused spur unit,also fed with 2.5 cable,and then come out of your switched/fused spur unit with 1.5mm cable to your lights,protecting your cables with conduit or mini trunking as required. Of course you should also take heed of the previous posters comments,regarding notification and testing etc.You should also ensure that any sockets are supplied via 30ma rcd.The same would apply for your other altered circuits.ie fit 30ma rcd
on E7 board also.
 
Of course you should also take heed of the previous posters comments, regarding notification and testing etc.You should also ensure that any sockets are supplied via 30ma rcd.The same would apply for your other altered circuits.ie fit 30ma rcd
on E7 board also.

Of course, I don't intend to ignore the sensible warnings. I will be getting all works checked by an electrician.

All sockets are on 30ma rcd's so I would only be extending from these. With regards the lights I doubt I will be adding to the lighting circuit but if I do I will probably extend the existing circuit rather than spurring off the sockets.

There is only one CU on the system currently and I am only assuming at this point (haven't checked yet) that the spare E7 circuit is being fed from rcd's installed in the CU. What are the rating likely to be for storage heaters? Surely they must be at least 30ma's?

Another thing is that the CU is now full and I'm wondering if I should be thinking about replacing it with a newer, bigger one or if I should be getting the local board to install an isolation switch and feed a second CU from a split tail?

Any thoughts?

Regards,

Matt
 
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sorry,didn't realize you had existing lights out there.
Not sure what set up you have there,if you only have one c.u.
The ones I've seen before have two_One for ordinary tarriff and another for off peak.Maybe the whole lot is on a dual tarriff supply.You might be getting in over your head here,but I will go on.As far as I know and am sure the learn'd brothers will correct me,but I believe that any new work has to comply to 17th edd.So if you extend your "E7" circuit to become a socket,all sockets need 30ma protection. However if you change the consumer unit,protection to 30ma will be required on all circuits in bathroom and all circuits with cables buried in a wall at a depth of less than 50mm,which in effect normally means all circuits.A dual rcd system is commonly employed,with the object being that you are not left without SOME power in the house.For instance it has become normal practice to install upstairs lights and downstairs sockets on one rcd and downstairs lights and upstairs sockets on another rcd.It would also require that your main earth bonds are checked and upgraded as necessary at this time.
All circuits should then be tested and readings noted on appropriate form for submission to council who will then charge you their fee to have work inspected...If you could include a photo of your c.u and meter it might help.
 
one of the tutors at college told us that one of the reasons for a ring was that if one leg of the earth was broken/disconnected ,then you'still have an earth from the other leg of the ring.

err, this post shouldn't be here. i was quick replying to another thread!!??

many,many,many moons ago,one of the tutors at college told us that one of the reasons for a ring was that if one leg of the earth was broken/disconnected ,then you'still have an earth from the other leg of the ring.
 
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one of the tutors at college told us that one of the reasons for a ring was that if one leg of the earth was broken/disconnected ,then you'still have an earth from the other leg of the ring.

err, this post shouldn't be here. i was quick replying to another thread!!??

many,many,many moons ago,one of the tutors at college told us that one of the reasons for a ring was that if one leg of the earth was broken/disconnected ,then you'still have an earth from the other leg of the ring.

Yes,and same for a neutral or a live!!---everything would apparantly "work" but,if the cable, say live,was broken at the consumer unit,your full load perhaps up to 32amp would have to flow through the 2.5mm cable,which isn't rated to carry this load,causing overheating and thus a possable fire risk where the rat has made its nest with the sawdust and debris from the electrician cutting his holes in the joists and forgetting to clean up.
 
Interestnig stuff mrloy99, I haven't spent much time studying the system, only a quick look around, I intend to get to this and really concentrate on what's what when I've finished more of the structural work.

sorry,didn't realize you had existing lights out there.
Not sure what set up you have there,if you only have one c.u.
The ones I've seen before have two_One for ordinary tarriff and another for off peak.Maybe the whole lot is on a dual tarriff supply.

My first thought was that 2 CU's wuold be sensible but there isn't. I will take a picture tonight and put it up for yuo to have a look at. I'll try and describe as much of the systyem as I can too.

Thanks,

Matt.
 
Hi there,

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get this to you. Been very busy working on the house. Replacing lead pipes with plasic, fixing dodgy joints in clay waste pipes, getting the plastering done, sanding floodboards etc etc etc...

Here is a picture of my switch box, if you need me to enlarge anything or describe the wiring of anything, please let me know. Any comments about this setup and how to improve it will be greately appreciated.

Regards,

Matt.

Ring final circuit vs Radial final circuit {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net
 
Hi there,

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get this to you. Been very busy working on the house. Replacing lead pipes with plasic, fixing dodgy joints in clay waste pipes, getting the plastering done, sanding floodboards etc etc etc...

Here is a picture of my switch box, if you need me to enlarge anything or describe the wiring of anything, please let me know. Any comments about this setup and how to improve it will be greately appreciated.

Regards,

Matt.

Ring final circuit vs Radial final circuit {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net
Hello Matt,
I would suggest that you post this as I new thread starter as this is all getting a bit long winded and off topic.(but you should be bringing things up to 17th spec if you are doing major renovations at this time)
 
there was talk of the ring final circuit being done away with when the 17th edition was being drafted but nothing, maybe its on the cards for the near future, the rest of europe are on radials with DP breakers i believe
 
Hello Matt,
I would suggest that you post this as I new thread starter as this is all getting a bit long winded and off topic.(but you should be bringing things up to 17th spec if you are doing major renovations at this time)


True, I will do later today hopefully, thanks. (Sorry for hyjacking this thread :eek:)

Matt.
 
Jesus none of you came up with the most obvious answer. if you get a fault on a ring it is a lot harder to find than on a radial. I aint even gonna explain why unless somebody asks but it`s pretty simple if you just apply a little common sense.
 
Jesus none of you came up with the most obvious answer. if you get a fault on a ring it is a lot harder to find than on a radial. I aint even gonna explain why unless somebody asks but it`s pretty simple if you just apply a little common sense.


Why? the only difference between them is the extra leg back to the board.
 
Think if you have a fault on a ring you still have 2 live ends to test and a lot of live skts. where as on a radial wherever ur break is all skts thereafter are dead.:mad:
 
...so, whats the negative aspects of a ring cct? Apart from more cable clips.

Don't forget the aspect of.......... Diy ers... kitchen fitters etc ....... cocking up ring mains over the years
As I have seen on lots of occasions.......... Then try to solve it !..... at least it is really hard to cock up a radial
Ps I am A 4.00mm radial fan !!! ....... So much easier to work with ... forget the cost !!!
 
Don't forget the aspect of.......... Diy ers... kitchen fitters etc ....... cocking up ring mains over the years
As I have seen on lots of occasions.......... Then try to solve it !..... at least it is really hard to cock up a radial
Ps I am A 4.00mm radial fan !!! ....... So much easier to work with ... forget the cost !!!
I did post something a while back,can't find it at the mo.Do away with rings and just use 4mm radials.The way to go:D
 
If for example you were rewiring a house would you still use the same method with the 4mm radial (kitchen, down stairs and up stairs) for the power circuits or would there be more circuit ie one circuits per room
 
If for example you were rewiring a house would you still use the same method with the 4mm radial (kitchen, down stairs and up stairs) for the power circuits or would there be more circuit ie one circuits per room
Kitchen on it's own circuit,rest of downstairs and upstairs on it's own circuits.Upstairs and downstairs circuits literally use nothing.
 
a 16 A radial is easier to test /run/and idiot proof for uncle bill the was an electrician for the years ago and diy using the home electrics books. most important it allows seperation of cks for customer conveniance in case of a fault, its basicly foolfroof, for plugs 2xrad + kitchen+lts is enough for av 3bed flat-most important-cant make a ring a hazard-cable run up to 30 m no problems
 

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