Ring main with no earth ring!?!

[michaelw6]

Today i did a board change was one of them all in one eicr fix on site board changes "you know the ones that always go wrong".
Well the issue was the house ring.
i had 0.44 live 0.44 neutral and no earth ring.
I have put this circuit on a B32 61009 RCBO.
now how do i stand with the earth as its not to regs with regards sizing so theoretically if a fault develops it would not carry the load fast enough to trip.
I have had every point off in the house trying to find and tightened all up but no fault so it must be a joint under the floor. laminate down so floor coming up is a no go.
i thought about putting on a 20a but there are 20 sockets covering the whole house inc kitchen. so it may over load.
i thought about splitting ring but as i cannot find the fault how can i split ill have more sockets with no earth then...
So ive gone around and zs tested all sockets i have an earth max zs was 0.73ohms and the rcbo is max zs of 1.16ohms i believe so its well within tripping times.
Any more Ideas you recon it will be ok to leave just make a note of it on cert???

 

[loz]

The ring must be split in between two sockets. My first job would be to find out between which 2 points it's split. (Disconnect all ring conductors at do. Link line and earth of one cable and test between these At the sockets, then once you've identified the sockets with continuity, repeat the process from the other end, I like to do a plan and record readings on it to try identify how the ring is wired) Then if possible rewire that section or split into two radials if this is feasible

 

[Octopus]

What did your schemes tech support team suggest?

TBH matey this should be relatively easy to locate doing an R1 + R2 on each leg of the circuit from the CU

 

[westward10]

Your max Zs is pretty irrelevant it is an rcbo, I know some may consider it poor practice to rely on the rcd to provide fault protection on TN systems, never the less a change from 32A to 20A is irrelevant.

 

[Pete999]

Today i did a board change was one of them all in one eicr fix on site board changes "you know the ones that always go wrong".
Well the issue was the house ring.
i had 0.44 live 0.44 neutral and no earth ring.
I have put this circuit on a B32 61009 RCBO.
now how do i stand with the earth as its not to regs with regards sizing so theoretically if a fault develops it would not carry the load fast enough to trip.
I have had every point off in the house trying to find and tightened all up but no fault so it must be a joint under the floor. laminate down so floor coming up is a no go.
i thought about putting on a 20a but there are 20 sockets covering the whole house inc kitchen. so it may over load.
i thought about splitting ring but as i cannot find the fault how can i split ill have more sockets with no earth then...
So ive gone around and zs tested all sockets i have an earth max zs was 0.73ohms and the rcbo is max zs of 1.16ohms i believe so its well within tripping times.
Any more Ideas you recon it will be ok to leave just make a note of it on cert???

It's a Ring Final Circuit RFC NOT a blasted Ring Main

 

[telectrix]

easiest way is get a wander lead and check R2 readings. this will soon ID where the fault is located, and the values will help to plot the routes.

 

[Midwest]

Without r2 continuity, I can't see how you can obtain such a low Zs reading, obviously you have a parallel earth path via an appliance etc. If such an appliance is removed in the future the Zs figure will rise.

As the others said, time to locate the fault. Think Tel has suggested before to another OP, to split the RFC into two radials, if the break is somewhere you can't access.

Note to oneself, never do a CU change just before Xmas

 

[Sparkie30]

He must of done that in porpuse Pete.

 

[Octopus]

scary stuff from an "Arms" member... especially if you read the duplicate of this on another forum....

 

[westward10]

scary stuff from an "Arms" member... especially if you read the duplicate of this on another forum....

Certainly limited knowledge of the principles of circuit protection.

 

[sparksburnout]

Well I will make a note not to do any of those "All in one EICR fix on site board jobbies", they sound like hard work to me, specially as they are the ones that always go wrong. I had made a new years resolution not to be critical about anything anymore but je-sus-^^^ing-wept give me strength I just broke it early. Are you for real??? It says in your profile that your occupation is "electrical". What exactly is that???? Beam me up Scotty, take me now son.........

 

[Rpa07]

I had made a new years resolution not to be critical about anything anymore...

It's ok sparksburntout, it's only December 21st - the new you hasn't come into effect yet - LET RIP!

 

[sparksburnout]

It's ok sparksburntout, it's only December 21st - the new you hasn't come into effect yet - LET RIP!

Well, this guy is, apparently, "the most trusted and best loved electrician in Swindon". Any other sparks in Swindon care to comment?? Are there any others?
Oh roll on 2017...

 

[rolyberkin]

Well I will make a note not to do any of those "All in one EICR fix on site board jobbies", they sound like hard work to me, specially as they are the ones that always go wrong. I had made a new years resolution not to be critical about anything anymore but je-sus-^^^ing-wept give me strength I just broke it early. Are you for real??? It says in your profile that your occupation is "electrical". What exactly is that???? Beam me up Scotty, take me now son.........

I go through this love/hate relationship with your posts, gonna start calling you marmite!

 

[davesparks]

Find the fault and fix it/take suitable remedial action.
You can't just make a note on a bit of paper and call it fixed!
The regulations specify that the cpc of a ring circuit must also be a ring.

 

[westward10]

G

Find the fault and fix it/take suitable remedial action.
You can't just make a note on a bit of paper and call it fixed!
The regulations specify that the cpc of a ring circuit must also be a ring.

Go on Pete, tell him, go on I dare you, it is a ring final circuit

 

[Pete999]

G

Go on Pete, tell him, go on I dare you, it is a ring final circuit

No I won't so stop taking the pess lol seriously though, doesn't it get your goat, when people can't even get the description of what they are talking about right?

 

[westward10]

No I won't so stop taking the pess lol seriously though, doesn't it get your goat, when people can't even get the description of what they are talking about right?

That and bad grammar Pete.

 

[Pete999]

I

That and bad grammar Pete.

I said stop FFS what is bad grammar? Sorry mate I really MUST read the post properly, ignore my last please put it down to the lovely bottle of wine I have just finished

 

[sparksburnout]

I

I said stop FFS what is bad grammar? Sorry mate I really MUST read the post properly, ignore my last please put it down to the lovely bottle of wine I have just finished

Nice one Pete, are you just getting in a bit of training ready for the festive session?