Sauna Heater Help! - What Cable

[Weezy]

As short as possible.
My customer has brought a sauna heater that’s made in the USA the manual is VERY poor, it states that the cable to the heater should be ‘REVE or equivalent’
I took the manual to Edmundsons Electircal wholesalers and they had no clue what that was...

Ed’s said they would look into it, not heard back from them.

I emailed the manufacture in USA, not heard back from them.

Iv done some research and i believe sauna heaters normally range from 75 degree’s to 98 degree’s.

Ordinary pvc t&e cannot be used Swa cannot be used.
Iv read that you can buy H07rn-f cable but this is only rated to 85degrees. So surely this won’t do?

I also read some electricians use HTF cable? i also asked Ed’s for any of this which he also had no idea on...

I did think of using Butyl cable but i’m not 100% sure what it’s current rating is? ideally i need 6mm but it seems almost impossible to buy, they do sell 4mm but is 4mm butyl rated at 32amps like normal T&E pvc/pvc 4mm?

So i’m totally at a lost end, part of me is thinking will the temps ever reach 98 degrees, what do i do?

p.s I really don’t want to use pyro...

 

[westward10]

SaunaShop.com : Saunas, sauna, lighting cable, high temperature cable, high temperature lighting cable, flex, wire - https://www.saunashop.co.uk/product-range/details/high-temperature-cables-for-stoves-lights-sensors/112/

 

[Spoon]

Is the sauna capable of running on the changed frequency and voltage?
Any chance if taking a pic of the manual and posting it up.

 

[Weezy]

SaunaShop.com : Saunas, sauna, lighting cable, high temperature cable, high temperature lighting cable, flex, wire - https://www.saunashop.co.uk/product-range/details/high-temperature-cables-for-stoves-lights-sensors/112/

That looks good, but from the wording i’m slightly confused, is that stuff ‘H07rn-f’ or is it ‘Htf3’ or are they the same thing? because i asked Ed’s for some Htf3 and the bloke said he had never heard of that before?

 

[Charlie_]

Has the sauna come with its own small length of cable?
I have wired saunas in H07 and HTC.
The last one I installed was in 5 core H07 (3 phase)
All the cabling was concealed within the timber seating and the base of the sauna was also concealed within the seating structure..
Section 703 is useful for further guidance..
Have you got make and models..
Frequency isn’t an issue but the voltage will be if it hasn’t been manufactured for sale in the UK..
Many saunas have voltage selectors fitted

 

[Charlie_]

You will be very lucky to get useful unbiased advice from a wholesalers..
We are the experts and they need us to specify the relevant information..
If you want like for like comparisons of cables from different countries then you need to got the manufacturers or to basec for that expertise

 

[telectrix]

think you'll find that 75 - 98 deg. is fahrenheit. 98. C would boil your blood.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Aye, it’s a US product and they are still in Fahrenheit.

When you order the connecting cable, don’t forget to order it in feet and inches.

 

[telectrix]

or fathoms.

 

[Charlie_]

Those temperatures actually are oC
Just don’t stay in them for too long

 

[DPG]

I don't believe the inside of a sauna will ever reach 98C!

 

[freddo]

Sauna temperatures are generally between 70 and 100°C (158 and 212°F).

 

[DPG]

Sauna temperatures are generally between 70 and 100°C (158 and 212°F).

Within the sauna? Never knew that - seems a tad high.

 

[freddo]

Had to do some repairs in a Hotel sauna a while back, it's not fun working in 85C heat.

 

[Bobster]

Within the sauna? Never knew that - seems a tad high.

Some will go to 140 - 160 deg C for brief periods of time.

There's a real stupid competition in a country (can't remember off hand) that people compete to see how long they can stay inside for.

I want to say it's a Scandinavian country. Seem to remember reading about it as they were considering banning it after a competitor died.

 

[Spoon]

I want to say it's a Scandinavian country. Seem to remember reading about it as they were considering banning it after a competitor died.

Should be in the Darwin Awards.

 

[Bobster]

Should be in the Darwin Awards.

Only reason I remember it as I quite frequently worked in 50 - 55deg C temps near the kilns an it used to knacker me.

It only takes a 2 or 3 deg increase internally and you're real ill or dying. Couldn't believe the human body could take that sort of temperature.

I know I couldn't stick my hand on a piece of metal that hot without being burned.

I do wonder though if this is the temperature of the coals/heating elements rather than the air in the room. It must be.

 

[Spoon]

I do wonder though if this is the temperature of the coals/heating elements rather than the air in the room. It must be.

I'd hope it was. I think 100deg C air might not be very good for the lungs and airway.

 

[Shoei]

I'd hope it was. I think 100deg C air might not be very good for the lungs and airway.

How hot can a sauna safely get? - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-10912578

"However, Mr Miettinen says he cannot understand how a temperature of "only 110C" could lead to someone's death, when people have safely enjoyed heat at 160C."

Enjoyed???

 

[freddo]

I do wonder though if this is the temperature of the coals/heating elements rather than the air in the room. It must be.

The 85c I mentioned earlier was shown on a thermometer hanging on the wall of the sauna.

I'd hope it was. I think 100deg C air might not be very good for the lungs and airway.

I don't like it much, found it very difficult to breathe in the hot dry air.

 

[Charlie_]

You think the Saunas are hot, try getting in a Steam room, they are harsh..
A few of my clients like to sit in them for a while and then jump into their ice cold plunge pools!... crackers

 

[Weezy]

Incase anyone else comes across this in my situation i thought i would share my result.

In the end Edmundson Electrical sorted me out, Although not the most helpful reply they managed to find some black rubber based cable that i believe was a type of butyl. It was rated to 160 degrees celsius. Sorry i dont know the exact code it’s been a while since i finished the job.

I do know however it had to come from abroad and costs £10 a meter and the minimum amount they will sell you is 100 meters...

Yea, now i just gotta use this stuff up somewhere.

 

[freddo]

Butyl rubber is nice cable, resistant to grease and oil too. Silicone insulated flex has a much higher maximum working temperature, I think the last stuff I used was rated 250C, but is quite easy to damage.

 

[Charlie_]

If you speak to your local eddies again, ask them to put it on their system and then if anyone else enquirers at any other branch they will see it on their system..

 

[Rpa07]

Within the sauna? Never knew that - seems a tad high.

I know it’s an old thread DPG but if you can’t stand the heat - get out of the sauna!
It takes 20 minutes in a sauna for your body’s pores to start to expel the toxins that lurk within so you need to build up to that. You definitely need litres of water in the sauna with you to replace what you loose and intermittent cool showers to help you out. I like them - just don’t wear a silver chain around your neck otherwise it becomes a silver scar!

 

[Wilko]

... they managed to find some black rubber based cable that i believe was a type of butyl. It was rated to 160 degrees celsius ... costs £10 a meter and the minimum amount they will sell you is 100 meters ... Yea, now i just gotta use this stuff up somewhere.

Hi - just wondering why you didn’t use @westward10 suggestion in post #2? ( it seems to be silicon 180C, less £ and available by the meter)

 

[Eric Krantz]

The manual for my heater states "wire from controller to heater needs to be UL62 approved to 105C". I found SJEEOW wire on McMaster Carr. Can buy a 10-foot piece for $22.

My question is: Does NEC allow SJEEOW to be placed in studs in wall (similar to Romex)?

 

[Pete999]

Megawatt??? help please

 

[Eric Krantz]

Megawatt??? help please

I'm not sure what you are asking here...

 

[westward10]

@Megawatt is a US member so he may see this now.

 

[Megawatt]

The manual for my heater states "wire from controller to heater needs to be UL62 approved to 105C". I found SJEEOW wire on McMaster Carr. Can buy a 10-foot piece for $22.

My question is: Does NEC allow SJEEOW to be placed in studs in wall (similar to Romex)?

The answer is no, you need to buy 6/3 with ground that’s approved for outdoor use. The insulation for SJEEOW and it’s not good for 60 amps.

 

[Eric Krantz]

The answer is no, you need to buy 6/3 with ground that’s approved for outdoor use. The insulation for SJEEOW and it’s not good for 60 amps.

I didn't specify... my heater is 6.5 kW (240VAC), so about ~27 amps.

 

[Megawatt]

I didn't specify... my heater is 6.5 kW (240VAC), so about ~27 amps.

All your wire needs to be # 6. Your manual actually states 60 amps. Do not use short cuts on cheap wire. Especially any kind of SO cable

 

[Eric Krantz]

All your wire needs to be # 6. Your manual actually states 60 amps. Do not use short cuts on cheap wire. Especially any kind of SO cable

No short cuts here. My manual states 10 Ga wire rated to 105C. The wire I bought is 10 Ga and rated to 105C.

My question is: Can I run SJEEOW in the wall? An electrician I called (before I got the SJEEOW), said "Only Romex in wall, has to be insulated".

 

[Megawatt]

No short cuts here. My manual states 10 Ga wire rated to 105C. The wire I bought is 10 Ga and rated to 105C.

My question is: Can I run SJEEOW in the wall? An electrician I called (before I got the SJEEOW), said "Only Romex in wall, has to be insulated".

Article 400.12 states it is not permitted to run through holes in walls. It will handle 30 amps and it’s not approved for wet locations

 

[Eric Krantz]

Great. Then I run it in metal conduit inside the wall? Not a wet location so I'm good there.

Can you explain why you were insistent on 6 GA?

 

[Megawatt]

Great. Then I run it in metal conduit inside the wall? Not a wet location so I'm good there.

Can you explain why you were insistent on 6 GA?

Every hot tub or SPA I’ve wired called for a 50 or 60 amp GFCI breaker and I usually go with #6 which I keep in stock in my truck

 

[Eric Krantz]

Every hot tub or SPA I’ve wired called for a 50 or 60 amp GFCI breaker and I usually go with #6 which I keep in stock in my truck

Thanks, that makes sense for that current load.

What about running SJEEOW in metal conduit through the studs? Will the inspector freak out?

 

[Megawatt]

Thanks, that makes sense for that current load.

What about running SJEEOW in metal conduit through the studs? Will the inspector freak out?

No he won’t flip out but why metal and not PVC conduit

 

[Eric Krantz]

No he won’t flip out but why metal and not PVC conduit

That's a good question... I bought flexible metal already! Can probably return that and go with cheaper PVC.... in fact I probably have a 3 foot chunk in the office that I can use. Looking for a deep feedthrough to go through the 5/8" cedar, will probably have to put a metal plate there?