Technical Discussion - PV*SOL Expert 5.5

[moggy1968]

having givenPVSOL a fairly comprehensive bashing on here, here's why I do use it, albeit in a very limited way

I was finding I wasn't converting quotes into jobs and decided one reason for that was presentation.

I thought PVsol would be a way of making my presentations more professional. I now convert most quotes into jobs, but as my purchase came just before the october announcement it's difficult to know if it's down to the quality of my presentations or consumer panic. I have given up doing my reports through PV sol. I now just use the 3d modeling to make nice piccies to put into my quotes.

PVsol gives me the opportunity to try a variety of panel types on a particular roof to gain maximum useage of the area available.

The shading tool is useful and has revealed issues where I hadn't realised their would be one. This was complicated by not having a measuring tool which now appears to have been addressed.

Thanks for the offer to look at the specific problems I am having. The specific problem is, err, using PV sol! The lack of useability and functionality means it's very time consuming and mostly done by trial and error. Every time brings up new problems so it's impossible to list them all here! I think the program should be functional straight out of the box. Then if you want to do a course to learn the bells and whistles you can do that if you want. The degree of difficulty to get even the most basic functions out of it is really not acceptable.

Overall, as I say above, I can't judge it's usefulness in winning business accurately but I would say it has paid for itself.

 

[Julian Pett]

LSP Electrical: I see you are a keen student! Hopefully our email dialogue is making things clearer. I’ll get onto your latest questions once finished here. As I’ve mentioned previously, training is not obligatory and many customers such as yourself have taken advantage of all the free help and assistance we offer (full details in my previous post).

SolarCity: You’re right – it takes practice to become adept at using any tool or software package. We believe the time put in to PV*SOL is more than recouped by the improvement in your analysis of the situation, the speed in drafting quotations based on relevant simulations and the professionalism of your presentation. In short PV*SOL gives you the competitive advantage needed to get the jobs in.

Moggy1968: It’s good to see you’re getting some useful results from the software – but there’s so much more you could be doing with it. Try starting a new project in Quick Design (without 3D) first to see how simple the basic parameters are to run a reliable and accurate simulation. After that you can enter the main program to add shading and run system checks etc. We always teach trainees to get fully acquainted with the 2D side first so they really understand what’s going on. There are a lot of powerful tools here to help with analysis, not to mention the economic efficiency calculator for the all-important payback calculation!. Let me know if you need our guide to using the PV*SOL Economic Efficiency Calculator and I’ll be happy to email it over (email to: [email protected]). Maybe you’d like to check out our sample training course structure on our website (PV*SOL Training) – this should give you some tips as to what you may be missing. If there’s anything unfamiliar in there then drop me an email and I’ll be glad to explain.

 

[moggy1968]

many thanks Julian
Once I've staggered past march 3rd I'll do that!

 

[moggy1968]

I'm liking the system on stonehenge!!
might bid to english heritiage for that one!

 

[grandfortune]

it would be great to see a basic design done on you tube, it would really help, putting the roof measurements in literately took me hours to find and hours to input

 

[SolarCity]

Hmm, I might do something like this.

 

[finchy]

I've been thinking about investing in a PV software package and have spoken to you at various trade shows last year however as yet haven't invested in a dedicated solar pv package.

I use Google sketchup it simulates shading 365/24/7 in both 2d and 3D. I use the inverter design packages to ensure correct sizings etc and use excel for my ROi giving customers 3 different scenarios based on irradiance including SAP. How will I benefit from using PV sol other than information overload. I do have a MSC in computing so I'm a tough cookie when it comes to software.

Also on google I import the 3d model on to google earth so the local geographics are included in my model.

Would I/ how could I benefit from PV sol over Google ?

Many thanks

 

[grandfortune]

jesus fincy, could you send me over a sample quote, or bit of it on how your google sketch up looks?

email [email protected]

cheers Grand

 

[Julian Pett]

Moggy1968 - Good luck with getting your installations done on time. I look forward to hearing from you after you’ve recovered! Glad you liked ‘The Henge’ on our YouTube video. Feel free to send us your further suggestions for either Photoplan or 3D modelling, or send us your own work and we’ll be happy to credit you. Apart from a bit of fun – it’s also an attempt to rhetorically ask people to think how we are all going to meet CO2 emissions targets.

SolarCity – We’re working on all sorts of new forms of tuition some even free such as Webinars! For a fee with have a new ‘Advanced PV Survey, Design & Simulation Training’ course plus another course based on the new program - GeoT*SOL which simulates heat pump performance. In addition we’re revising the current PV*SOL courses to take account of all the new features in PV*SOL Expert 5.5. It’s all go at the Solar Design Company! Webinars will be announced here soon. More details of the training can be found at: T*SOL and PV*SOL Training. We’d love to see you put up a video or two on YouTube. Please send us the link when you’re done. The more the merrier. If you or anybody else would like a link on your website with some of our higher resolution graphics, promo videos & information plus a ‘We use PV*SOL’ badge then please get in touch with us direct at: [email protected] and we'll send you more information on this.

Finchy –There’s no doubt that a software enthusiast can invest their time in a range of 3D CAD type programs and produce amazing landscape renders which can impress some PV clients. However this doesn’t provide an integrated solution for transferring individual module shading frequency into the optimum inverter configuration. Architectural-orientated shading visualisation is quite different to quantifying energy values from modules/strings on an hourly basis. Most of all, we don’t believe your method would provide viable comparisons between equipment brands as each manufacturer has different preferences on climate files and temperature factor defaults whilst a dedicated PV simulator would.

PV*SOL gives a single, specialised PV simulation package which allows quick, accurate comparisons focussing on the task of design and presenting PV systems. Not to forget it comes with our technical support through the design/presentation process where separate programs require separate support calls. Using separate programs to achieve the same as PV*SOL would make a simple process more complicated with scope for errors and mismatched data. We believe having a central database of modules and inverters automatically updated on a daily basis is a key resource which avoids duplication of data entry.

Graphical visualisation of complex technical issues is a way to give client confidence that you thoroughly understand the subject. Careful use of the graphical outputs of PV*SOL can for example show the client that module temperature/ventilation is important. A single software package can allow the options to be altered in front of the client. Photoplan, which is built into PV*Sol, allows a very smooth visualisation and spacing check which would be difficult to replicate in separate packages.

Finally we would say PV*Sol is a powerful brand which is widely used in the trade and already known to investors seeking due diligence. A free demo of PV*Sol can be downloaded here: PV*SOL Expert

 

[Julian Pett]

Here are some more sneak previews exclusively for Electriciands Forum members:






And here's a feature you'll like:





We've also put together a You Tube promo video which can be viewed here:

[video=youtube;mnB_OfPdwM8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnB_OfPdwM8&feature=g-all-u&context=G225a360FAAAAAAAAAAA[/video]

 

[Julian Pett]

Here's a great new feature that you couldn't do before:

 

[The Solar King]

Julian

We need far more on the Economic Efficiency Calculation.

People are using this without fully understanding it. Even on the Expert course at Solar Design Company HQ, this was skirted round as the trainers didn't understand it either! I was particularly annoyed with this important aspect of the training. Results are being misinterpreted with people quoting returns far higher than they actually are as they don't understand what the model says. It is possible to use this correctly, IF sufficient explanation is given.

As tariffs are cut use of the economic model becomes more and more important in demonstrating the viability (or otherwise) of an installation.

There are also shortcomings with in it. Unless things have changed in 5.5 you cannot input the export tariff separately from the main feed in tariff. You have to work on the basis of 50% deemed and lump it in together. Hardly satisfactory.

There is also little explanation of the effects paying interest on payment sequences. Also a full explanation of how figures are derived in the final spreadsheet would be very helpful.

Net Present Value and Discounted Cash Flow are not beyond the understanding of the layman. This calculation, and variations on it are used to make investment decisions in all spheres of industry, commerce and Government.

The information and explanation currently available for the Economic Efficiency Calculation is woeful.

 

[Julian Pett]

Solar King,

As you correctly state, with tighter margins, economic modelling is now even more important in demonstrating the viability of an installation.

The Economic Efficiency Calculator in PV*SOL is based on the VDI 6025 Economic Standard and is a very flexible and powerful tool for economic analysis. If you wish to calculate returns from actual use of the electricity generated or to create a ‘deeming’ scenario then it is necessary to define a consumption load profile first i.e. select ‘net metering’ rather than ‘full feed in’

You will then have the option of selecting the British/Italian feed in tariff on opening the calculator and here you can define both a generation amount and an export amount. Alternatively, if you prefer to use a deeming approach, you can simply add half of the export amount to the generation amount and then enter zero for the feed in payment.

The results generated in the PV*SOL Economic Efficiency Calculator gives the Net Present Value (NPV) – the sum of the discounted cash flows of the scheme i.e. the sum of all terms, R[SUB]t[/SUB]/(1+i)[SUP]t [/SUP],where t is the time of the cash flow, i is the discount rate (the rate of return that could be earned on an investment in the financial markets with similar risk); the opportunity cost of the capital, R[SUB]t[/SUB] is the net cash flow at time t. The Internal Rate of Return (IRR) is also calculated – referred to in PV*SOL as ‘Yield’ i.e. the annualized effective compounded return rate or rate of return that makes the net NPV of all cash flows (both positive and negative) from a particular investment equal to zero i.e. Given the (period, cash flow) pairs n,C[SUB]n[/SUB]: NPV = ∑(C[SUB]n[/SUB]/(1+r)[SUP]n[/SUP] from n=0 to N; where n is a positive integer, N is the total number of periods, NPV is the net present value and r is the internal rate of return.

Explanations for all of these terms are available in the Help menu- accessed by pressing F1 at any time.

While it is true that such concepts are not beyond the understanding of the layperson, our experience thus far has shown that few attendees to our training courses are familiar with these concepts. To fully explain this approach to financial modelling would take a considerable amount of additional time and would not fulfil the remit of the training - which is to show how the program works. By the same token, we do not go into the details of the photovoltaic effect (which of course underpins the whole technology) i.e. the concept of a p-n junction and how the carrier flows under equilibrium, short circuit and open-circuit conditions; nor do we examine the theory behind inverter MPP matching and the various algorithms used to ascertain the current which the inverter should draw form the PV array.

We recognise that each individual attendee has a different level of cognisance of the concepts listed above and the course is subsequently tailored to suit this wide range of experience and understanding. We also recommend books and other sources of information to augment the training. Background reading on this and any other taught course is essential to begin to grasp any subject in its entirety.

I will be happy to send you our guide to using the PV*SOL Economic Efficiency Calculator which explains in a little more detail the answer to your tariff query and will hopefully explain to you in clear terms how you can achieve the results you require. Please send an email to [email protected] and we will email this document to you.

 

[Julian Pett]

Don't leave it too late to get PV*SOL 5.5 - the exclusive Electricians Forum offer expires at 5pm Wednesday 7th March - That's tomorrow just before teatime!

 

[Julian Pett]

Follow this link to get a free tutorial on setting up multiple roofs to one inverter in PV*SOL 3D:

[video=youtube;ld5kSskK3Uo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld5kSskK3Uo&context=C3611e3bADOEgsToPDskIj TI5mHpMHJyPUy3NlDnWC[/video]

 

[Julian Pett]

 

[lspelectrical]

Your post #36 shows a building with split arrays on multiple roofs. Can you send a tutorial for this? Just the main roofs and not the projection.

 

[lspelectrical]

Many thanks for link Julian, but that is not what I am after. I did watch the tutorial, as I thought I was missing something from your instructions. What I actually meant was:

The building shown on this thread (post no #36) has a photograph, a photoplan and a 3d visualisation. What I would like to see is the two arrays on the top roofs of this building linked to one inverter using the 3d visualisation.
I have attached a jpg of the roof in your screenshot and a similar one on pv-sol expert.




I think the tutorial really shows only one roof (albeit different views / sides) linking to the inverter.

 

[Julian Pett]

lspelectrical:

We have created a document showing the steps you need to follow to configure arrays on multiple roofs to one inverter.

These instructions have been emailed to you and are available to anybody else who could use some tips on the subject. If other Electricians Forum members would like a copy of this document then please send an email requesting it to: [email protected] and we'll be happy to provide it free of charge.

 

[lspelectrical]

Thank you Julian. I do appreciate the time you are taking over this.

I have emailed you to discuss.