Why so big a difference in price?

[steve_jones]

Hi All,

Just wanted anyone's views on why electricians prices are so different, had a few quotes for wiring in a kitchen, quotes came in at:

£1200
£950 (reduced to £850 when I questioned it)
£460

Went with the £460, did a great job, safety certificate the lot. I know none of you will have seen the job in question but how do people quote up for jobs and why the vast difference?

 

[robd]

People might put a higher price in if they think someone is likely to be a pain in the backside.

 

[Octopus]

People do put a higher price in if they think someone is likely to be a pain in the backside.

Edited that for you ..............

 

[sparksburnout]

It's up to you. Why do you think there was such a difference in price? why do you think that you can go to a nice, "ethical" restaurant for a meal, where they might be paying for well trained, professional staff, for a reasonable amount of money, or trot off down the £4.99 for two crap house? People in this country seem to be wanting everything for nothing these days, it is all going to end in tears.

 

[robd]

Edited that for you ..............

Was trying to be tactful

 

[steve_jones]

It's up to you. Why do you think there was such a difference in price? why do you think that you can go to a nice, "ethical" restaurant for a meal, where they might be paying for well trained, professional staff, for a reasonable amount of money, or trot off down the £4.99 for two crap house? People in this country seem to be wanting everything for nothing these days, it is all going to end in tears.

Just because someone is cheaper doesn’t mean they’ll do a bad job, same as someone expensive doing a good job. Yes in general you do get what you pay for but that price seemed reasonable to me. Don’t you think it says something about the other electrician who dropped £100 once I questioned his pricing? To me that shows a chancer. I bet he pulled up, saw my house on a private estate and put on £200.

 

[robd]

Just because someone is cheaper doesn’t mean they’ll do a bad job, same as someone expensive doing a good job. Yes in general you do get what you pay for but that price seemed reasonable to me. Don’t you think it says something about the other electrician who dropped £100 once I questioned his pricing? To me that shows a chancer. I bet he pulled up, saw my house on a private estate and put on £200.

I had somebody knock me down in my early days, would never do it again. Put it down to experience and him being a bit over bearing and pushy. Well done for having your house on a private estate by the way.

 

[steve_jones]

I had somebody knock me down in my early days, would never do it again. Put it down to experience and him being a bit over bearing and pushy. Well done for having your house on a private estate by the way.

I didn’t try and knock him down, after not replying to his quote for a few days he asked if it was too expensive and I said yes then we took £100 off.

 

[PEG]

I had somebody knock me down in my early days, would never do it again. Put it down to experience and him being a bit over bearing and pushy. Well done for having your house on a private estate by the way.

That made me laugh...the thread was going all Joe Pesci versus Spider,in Goodfellas...but you cured it

 

[sparksburnout]

Just because someone is cheaper doesn’t mean they’ll do a bad job, same as someone expensive doing a good job. Yes in general you do get what you pay for but that price seemed reasonable to me. Don’t you think it says something about the other electrician who dropped £100 once I questioned his pricing? To me that shows a chancer. I bet he pulled up, saw my house on a private estate and put on £200.

Oh, well, if it's on a private estate that's another thing entirely. You didn't say you were the Duke of Devonshire did you??

 

[pirate]

You get what you pay for...yes...but sometimes you get good value too, even at the mid-range of the market. I can't afford to have my car serviced by the main dealer, it is too old to warrant that "premium service". My mechanic comes to the house (20 miles), drops off his courtesy car and takes mine away, and brings it back when he is satisfied that all is good...and he charges £60/hour labour. I'm happy with that, it suits me, and he is a good mechanic.
Paying cash is always a game, and too few people see the catch...
I had a plumber fit a shower pump for me...not a difficult job, but a time-consuming one and it was needed in a hurry and I simply hadn't the time to do it myself. He charged me the shop price for the pump, and again £60/hour. He asked if I wanted VAT invoice etc and I said yes, because with an invoice I could set it against the rental income, and I had a comeback if it failed.
Maths: Price for the labour was £300 +VAT of £60 =£360. He said he could "lose" the VAT for cash. Thus, I save £60. He however makes £300 either way. £360 and he pays the vatman £60, so pockets £300, but minus income tax at 40%, so he nets £180. £300 cash and he makes, well...£300! No tax, no comeback. So, I save £60, he saves 3x that, I have no invoice and he has no liability. Therefore, offering to "lose the VAT" is a very poor offer for me...if he wanted cash, he would have to come down to £200...he gets £200 and I save £160...or somewhere in between.
And that is just one of many reasons why prices vary so much.
As an aside, I put in the power supply for the pump and as it's Scotland I didn't part P anyone. However, I did get a proper electrician to do my testing afterwards of that new circuit and the new supply to the smokes...and I was happy to pay him his charge for that.

 

[The Ghost]

One thing considering the fact you said 6 downlights, I like to use something like JCC which are £20-£25.00 per fitting, that would be £120. But you can get them far cheaper. Also it is a lot to do with perception of the job and estimating labour. I usually put in 20% more labour as experience tells me things never go smoothly. Like, I find out you have insulation in the void above the kitchen which is going to be slightly more work and so on. At £35 p.h. (I charge) thats £350 with my 20% its £420 so thats £540 easily. If I was VAT registered then VAT on top. Then there are the other materials like under cupboard lighting, cooker upgrade mats. and so on Maybe £100?
You say it is a good job, how do you know it is? Not being challenging just curious.

 

[Risteard]

Went with the £460

Without trying to establish why it was less than half of the price of the other quotes? That is completely the wrong way to deal with quotes.

 

[Risteard]

People might put a higher price in if they think someone is likely to be a pain in the backside.

Or a gap in the rectum cavity.

 

[MJPD29]

Sounds to me like either you have found a decent guy who undervalues his work, or you have found an unqualified handy man who has a good image and looks with his van etc but has made an absolute mess in areas that you can't see. Most probably and hopefully the first though!

 

[Risteard]

Most probably ... the first though!

I doubt that.

 

[davesparks]

I paid the bloke cash, he runs his own business just himself, had a smart van with professional artwork on the side and fully registered.

The kitchen fitter recommend him and said he has worked on many building sites with him. I should think £460 for 10 hours work is a decent rate, minus the cabling and downlights he's easy made at least £350. £35 an hour seems reasonable for an electrician, or is £70 or £110 a more reasonable rate like the other chancers?

He hasn’t easily made £350 because his overheads, tax and national insurance will need to be taken out of that figure.

 

[Anthony S]

As long as your happy with the cost and work and the electrician is happy then it does not matter what others think so a pointless thread really.

 

[Wilko]

Take your car to be fixed, compare the wages of the mechanic to the hourly rate you are charged. I'm off to buy a garage

 

[MJPD29]

I doubt that.

I was trying to be positive for the OP lol

 

[steve_jones]

Sounds to me like either you have found a decent guy who undervalues his work, or you have found an unqualified handy man who has a good image and looks with his van etc but has made an absolute mess in areas that you can't see. Most probably and hopefully the first though!

So an electrician recommended by the fitter who has worked on many building sites and has the following is unqualified?

EAL DOMESTIC INSTALLERS CERTIFICATE
CITY AND GUILDS
PART P

 

[Tes369]

So let's see the pics of this installation.... I don't think you'll put pics up though

Too many one man band domestic installers set up that's the problem the market is flooded with so called "Electricians".

I was sat in a Co op car park yesterday eating my lunch and in the space of half an hour two Electrical Installation vans part P registered and the classic plumber van pulled in and a member of a scheme also does electrics local guys and a pretty small town.

Cheers

 

[Tes369]

Unquallified .. I'd say so

I'd like to see him put a bubble set in a length of 20mm galv conduit.

Cheers

 

[RWJ]

I'd like to see him put a bubble set in a length of 20mm galv conduit.

Think you'll find it's a "three point saddle"..... Yep I love getting corrected by the apprentices!!!

 

[RWJ]

So an electrician recommended by the fitter who has worked on many building sites and has the following is unqualified?

EAL DOMESTIC INSTALLERS CERTIFICATE
CITY AND GUILDS
PART P

Trying to start the old DI vs Apprenticeship served argument......Definitely a WIND UP!!!!!!

How could he have shown the Part P qualification.... It's a building reg!

 

[Spoon]

How could he have shown the Part P qualification.... It's a building reg!

I've heard this lots of times on here. I don't quite get it...
Yes Part P is a building reg but there are courses out there were you take a test and get a piece of paper saying you have passed 'Part P qualification'
I could say that the 17th Ed is a reg and not a qualification, but still you can take a test and get a piece of paper saying you have passed.

and, yes, I feel the OP is just trying to wind people up...

 

[MDJ]

Okay lets get back on track, the guy asked for cash, I never accepted cash when I ran a business but then I was Limited and liked everything clean as a whistle, that said nothing wrong with cash, however did you get a proper company invoice? the actual quote is cheap to be fair, I would have priced the job based on your description at 850 quid plus vat if I really wanted the job and 1200-1300 plus vat if I was busy and didn't. Saying this did the guy actually allow for examining the existing installation? was the Consumer unit up to scratch? was there main equipotential bonding in place and was it satisfactory? did he confirm existing RCDs or RCBOs were satisfactory? was the down lighters he installed fireproof? who plastered up the chases for the new socket and switch drops? if all above was done or explained then you have just had a spark around who dropped a clanger and maybe next time he will get it right.

 

[peterhyper]

I am suprised Dr Jones isn't at work, although I suspect that he is as much a doctor as Dr Hook was (the older members will remember him). Ironically if Dr Jones isn't on a wind up, I doubt he would be in love with a beautiful woman because I would be sure he lived alone (again for the younger members that was a reference to one of Dr Hooks songs).

 

[Risteard]

So an electrician recommended by the fitter who has worked on many building sites and has the following is unqualified?

EAL DOMESTIC INSTALLERS CERTIFICATE
CITY AND GUILDS
PART P

Absolutely. In fact he's not an Electrician but a "Domestic Electrical Installer". How do you even know his qualifications? Is this a wind-up?

 

[Andy78]

So an electrician recommended by the fitter who has worked on many building sites and has the following is unqualified?

EAL DOMESTIC INSTALLERS CERTIFICATE
CITY AND GUILDS
PART P

If he's advertising that array of mickey mouse quals then he's almost certainly not what the industry would recognise as fully qualified. That coupled with the cheap price would have me with serious doubts about the quality of service.

Could also all be fine though.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Steve, I think you are making assumptions. You are assuming the spark that did the work did it to a very good level. Your £460 job may be a lash up and not satisfy the regs. You are also assuming how much electricians earn.
I come across plenty of dodgy electrics installed by qualified sparks with shiny sign written vans. And plenty of people are willing to sign 'safety certs' even though things are not correct.
Was bonding, earthing and circuit protection up to scratch?
Other considerations are that as this particular spark works with the kitchen fitters regularly they will have a better idea as to how they work. The other quoters may have thought it sounded a bit of a pain to do. They may have thought it would take longer than it actually took.
Or they may be really busy and not want nor need the work so tried to price themselves out of the equation. Or it may be the case that they didn't take too you on a professional level and priced accordingly.
For the works done I think 460 is to cheap by a few hundred pounds, and I would suspect something is awry. But you seem set firm in the belief that they were trying to rip you off.

 

[Octopus]

People can pay me by cash, cheque, or BACs - the price is always the same ................ I don't care how people pay me, all I ask is that they pay.....

There are also people who deliberately earn below certain thresholds so they can continue to receive tax free "tax credits"

 

[Nigel]

I've heard this lots of times on here. I don't quite get it...
Yes Part P is a building reg but there are courses out there were you take a test and get a piece of paper saying you have passed 'Part P qualification'
I could say that the 17th Ed is a reg and not a qualification, but still you can take a test and get a piece of paper saying you have passed.

and, yes, I feel the OP is just trying to wind people up...

I think the issue may be that as a bolt-on to a fully qualified electrician these sort of one day courses are perfectly fine.

As a stand alone course however they are completely worthless. Doing the 17th Edition course but no other qualifications does not make you anywhere near an electrician and this is what these cowboys are trading on - giving a false sense of security to joe public that knows nothing better.

 

[MJPD29]

So an electrician recommended by the fitter who has worked on many building sites and has the following is unqualified?

EAL DOMESTIC INSTALLERS CERTIFICATE
CITY AND GUILDS
PART P

Anyone recommended by a fitter is most probably not an electrician. If he is a domestic installer, he is not an electrician. Let's make that very clear as domestic installers are exactly that and not electricians. What city and guild is that? There are thousands or city and guild courses but is it the required one? I think your another member of the public who doesn' actually understand electrical work or what is involved and jump at cheap prices. I can't blame you for that. 90 per cent of the public is the same.

 

[Spoon]

If he is a domestic installer, he is not an electrician. Let's make that very clear as domestic installers are exactly that and not electricians.

wow... that sounds very stuck-up...
I suppose it's everyone to their own opinion.
How about just thinking that they are electricians, but just at a different knowledge base to you...

 

[elsparko]

wow... that sounds very stuck-up...
I suppose it's everyone to their own opinion.
How about just thinking that they are electricians, but just at a different knowledge base to you...

i agree, ive seen industrial guys struggle with routing cables inside houses, having the ability to guess where dwangs are in walls, fishing for cables in victorian properties.

most sparkies can adapt from one to the other but it takes time

 

[David M]

There's not enough information to make judgement on the electrician. Where I live 10 hours work would equate to around £250. So assuming the job was straight forward and done correctly £460 is not out of the realms of realistic. But due to the large difference in prices I can understand why there is suspicion.
If the OP would post some pictures of the completed work and maybe more information regarding consumer unit, bonding etc... then we could make a better judgment as to whether it was value for more or a bodge job.

 

[Acmacm]

Anyone recommended by a fitter is most probably not an electrician. If he is a domestic installer, he is not an electrician. Let's make that very clear as domestic installers are exactly that and not electricians. What city and guild is that? There are thousands or city and guild courses but is it the required one? I think your another member of the public who doesn' actually understand electrical work or what is involved and jump at cheap prices. I can't blame you for that. 90 per cent of the public is the same.

Would you say an electrician is a person who does single phase and three phase then. The reason I ask this if you do only domestic refits or completely new and join a scheme and your now classed as designer and skilled amendment 3 ? Inteested to here your veiw

 

[elsparko]

Would you say an electrician is a person who does single phase and three phase then. The reason I ask this if you do only domestic refits or completely new and join a scheme and your now classed as designer and skilled amendment 3 ? Inteested to here your veiw

that wont work, some domestic premises have 3 phase

 

[The Ghost]

An Electrician is anyone who installs or maintains electrical systems LV or HV. Domestic , Commercial, Industrial Electricians are all Electricians. The skill and knowledge level differs vastly. Coming mostly from a domestic and light commercial end of the array, I must admit heavy end commercial and Industrial Electricians are in a different class to me. I would not even begin to attempt to do what they do unless I was fully instructed. However an Industrial electrician may likely make a complete mess of a domestic installation. Like all professions there are many skill levels.

 

[The Ghost]

Final word; Good question @steve_jones and it is a mystery to me as well as to you. In Bristol we have a man who will rewire your house for £2000. Nobody can compete with him. I cannnot fathom how he can do it. £4000 is about the average price. I am sometimes undercut by other electricians at sometimes as much as 50% as the customer tells me. Again I have no idea how they can do it and make a living. I am not living in the Canaries sipping pina colada on the beach I can assure you. I make a decent living no more.
People ask for reductions on the price and I never give any. Why? Because the price I worked out is an honest price based on my perception of the labour and materials and there is no wiggle room in that. I am not a used car salesman with a mark up of 500% to play with your head with.