Discuss Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose in the DIY Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hello DIY Electrical Forum I am at a bit of a loss to proceed any further than I have done so already with wiring a flush ceiling fitting in my kitchen to an existing twin switched rose. I have basic DIY experience and will proceed only as far as my ability allows and all work will be carried out with the whole household circuit isolated and tested and certified by a competent qualified person before use.

My kitchen has a pair of ceiling roses in a twin loop operated by two switches. I have installed the end of loop fitting but my difficulties have arisen with the previous fitting in the loop which I would like to wire from the rose using terminal connectors and a chocbox with whatever else is necessary to comply with current legislation. To gain enough space to use the existing rose and add the flush fitting I will be using some spacers to gain around an inch/25mm, or more if necessary, between the fitting / rose and ceiling.

I'm already finding it difficult to explain the current situation so have now uploaded some photos which are pretty self explanatory and as they say a picture paints a thousand words. I've rushed this post a bit but promise that the job will not be rushed and everything will be thoroughly checked but I'll add more information as required.

I expect this enquiry to be pretty basic stuff for a lot of readers of this forum but my intial question is what wires will have to be taken from the rose to the fitting. At the moment I understand that all earths witll have to be connected to a terminal and the blue wire with a brown sleeve ( on the extreme left of the first picture) - which I undestand is the switch live will have to be connected

Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose IMG_20190825_054919684 - EletriciansForums.net

Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose IMG_20190828_162947894 - EletriciansForums.net

Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose IMG_20190828_173854888 - EletriciansForums.net

Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose RTB Cancellation 10thSep2017 - EletriciansForums.net

Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose IMG_20190828_162856349 - EletriciansForums.net

Wiring Kitchen Flush Ceiling Fitting to Looped in Double Switched Rose IMG_20190828_164720474 - EletriciansForums.net
 
I don't think the blue wire that is sleeved brown is the switched live in this case.
I expect that it is the 2 brown wires closer to the center of the rose.
only testing can prove my suspicions right / wrong.

also, I have a concern that the original flex in the light fitting has been replaced with some twin and earth.
it looks like a ceramic light fitting of sorts that often run at high temperature. hence the fiberglass sheath shown in another picture to protect the cable from heat.

why not ask the guy (edit non p.c) Electrician you have lined up to test the installation to put the right wires in the right place for you?
it will only add 5 minutes to the job.
 
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I don't think the blue wire that is sleeved brown is the switched live in this case.
I expect that it is the 2 brown wires closer to the center of the rose.
only testing can prove my suspicions right / wrong.

also, I have a concern that the original flex in the light fitting has been replaced with some twin and earth.
it looks like a ceramic light fitting of sorts that often run at high temperature. hence the fiberglass sheath shown in another picture to protect the cable from heat.

why not ask the guy (edit non p.c) Electrician you have lined up to test the installation to put the right wires in the right place for you?
it will only add 5 minutes to the job.
The ceiling rose is a Crabtree safety ceiling rose/batton holder, James your thoughts are correct the blue switch wire has been put in the P. live loop and brown in SW with the live to the other light.
 
i would do away with the rose and fit a JB above the ceiling. wagos in a wago box would be my preference. it's an hour's work for a spark. cost no more than £50.
 
The ceiling rose is a Crabtree safety ceiling rose/batton holder, James your thoughts are correct the blue switch wire has been put in the P. live loop and brown in SW with the live to the other light.

that's the problem with asking the guy down the pub that has changed his own light fittings for his advice, you get the following "oh yeah its easy, the blue with the brown tape is the live, the blues all together are the N"
most of the time its right but experience is a long long lesson.
 
that's the problem with asking the guy down the pub that has changed his own light fittings for his advice, you get the following "oh yeah its easy, the blue with the brown tape is the live, the blues all together are the N"
most of the time its right but experience is a long long lesson.
The wiring in the ceiling rose as pictured is as I found it upon opening and after it's installation by my landlords contractors after a rewire of the whole house appoximately five years ago. Are you saying the rose, which is indeed a Crabtree has incorrect
[automerge]1567021586[/automerge]
that's the problem with asking the guy down the pub that has changed his own light fittings for his advice, you get the following "oh yeah its easy, the blue with the brown tape is the live, the blues all together are the N"
most of the time its right but experience is a long long lesson.
The wiring in the ceiling rose as pictured is as I found it upon opening and after it's installation by my landlords contractors after a rewire of the whole house appoximately five years ago. Are you saying the rose, which is indeed a Crabtree has incorrect identification markings of the wire on the extreme left of the photo ?
 
The wiring in the ceiling rose as pictured is as I found it upon opening and after it's installation by my landlords contractors after a rewire of the whole house appoximately five years ago. Are you saying the rose, which is indeed a Crabtree has incorrect
[automerge]1567021586[/automerge]

The wiring in the ceiling rose as pictured is as I found it upon opening and after it's installation by my landlords contractors after a rewire of the whole house appoximately five years ago. Are you saying the rose, which is indeed a Crabtree has incorrect identification markings of the wire on the extreme left of the photo ?

No, the installation looks good.
the identification of conductors looks good.
the only error was your assumption that blue with a brown sleeve was switched live.

brown or brown sleeve just denotes that it is a live cable (switched or permanent)
 
Thanks very much James for helping me get to understand the wiring of the ceiling rose a little better. I'll read up a bit more on the identification of conductors and try to get to understand the installation better
 
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if you want to learn more then try this book,
ISBN 978-1-78561-170-4
or
BS7671:2018
many folk on here have read it and found it really useful.
;)
 

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