termination of swa in trucking

[Phillcbr400]

New to testing and inspecting so bare with me. Doing a EICR on an old building of ours. One supply to a sub dis board using 3core swa runs through metallic trunking, through a wall, onto tray then into the sub dis board.
The supply end of the armour has been terminated with a bs951 pipe clamp.
The armour isn't been used as the main cpc.
I've spoke with the boss who said this is ok because of the above. To me it's not correct and should be changed out for a gland. Which reg can I show him to back my argument up. I will be coding it a c3 anyway.
Thanks for any help.

 

[Engineer54]

It's not alright, BS 951 clamps are made for clamping onto pipework etc, not the Armouring of a SWA cable. The clamp will if doing it's job, will be crushing the armour into the cable!! The only acceptable method of terminating aSWA is via a purpose made gland, or a manufacturers purpose made clamping system (eg often seen on street lighting furniture)


So why was this SWA cable not glanded into the sub board when first installed??

 

[telectrix]

what he said^^^^^. and i'd give it a code C2. ask you boss if he'd take his dog for a walk with a length of earth sleeving round his neck. nope. he'd use a proper dog collar and lead.

 

[Robotstar5]

I found something similar last year, SWA correctly made off at the panel but when I followed it back it went into the open end of steel trunking then end stripped with no gland etc. and cores connected into DB!.
Nice little job for the apprentice to correct it.

 

[telectrix]

and going by the thread title, should you not be asking eddie stobart?

 

[Phillcbr400]

Haha that's auto correct for you. I totally agree with everything said above. But he's an hairy arse fitter not a spark so unless I produce it in black and white his mentality is "it's doing it's job so don't spend any time on it.
As for not being correctly terminated into the board in the first place, probably because it was easier to feed it through the existing trunking in that room. Laziness comes I mind.

 

[Simon-0116]

Proberly fitted years a go when they didnt fit earth tags. Come across this lots at one factory we go to, were armourings are main earth, earth clamps been added latter me thinks

 

[Phillcbr400]

This install is 5 years old hence the EICR

 

[netblindpaul]

Now blow me down with a feather but, I thought that it was necessary for people doing EICR's to have above average competence and be familiar with the installation methods that they are inspecting.
So, it looks like another company sending a poor soul out to do a job and expecting them to do something that the company has not adequately trained them and equipped them to do?...
No wonder the industry is goosed.

OP, not a dig at you, but, you should know and understand this you should not be having to ask, your company should have equipped you with the competence to know this.

This seems typical of the depths this trade/industry as plummeted.
Appalling, putting a poor soul out to do work that they have not been trained and are experienced and competent to do, but, I guess that is why these companies get away with paying peanuts.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Now blow me down with a feather but, I thought that it was necessary for people doing EICR's to have above average competence and be familiar with the installation methods that they are inspecting.
So, it looks like another company sending a poor soul out to do a job and expecting them to do something that the company has not adequately trained them and equipped them to do?...
No wonder the industry is goosed.

OP, not a dig at you, but, you should know and understand this you should not be having to ask, your company should have equipped you with the competence to know this.

This seems typical of the depths this trade/industry as plummeted.
Appalling, putting a poor soul out to do work that they have not been trained and are experienced and competent to do, but, I guess that is why these companies get away with paying peanuts.

Ordinarily I would agree, but as in this instance the OP has identified an issue and suggested a code to be applied your assessment would seem a tad harsh.

 

[JD6400]

As Wirepuller says , at least the op knows that things are not right

 

[netblindpaul]

I'm not assessing the OP, I'm assessing the FACT that by the nature of the OP's post his employer has not fully equipped him to do the job, that is unfair on him, because if it all goes pear shaped, his employer will be pointing the finger directly at him, no holds barred.
That is unfair.
IF you READ my post you will see that is what has been written.
If the OP had been fairly and adequately prepared for the job by his employer, then he would not have needed to make this post.
He is being taken advantage of, and, will be the one made the scapegoat if things go wrong.
Unless that is, he has not been truthful in gaining his employment, but why would that be the case?

 

[JD6400]

I felt that the first two lines imply that the op is not up to it . I do agree that he should be able to find the reg without having to ask , but this may be the case and he is just using this to start a topic off .
It is however undeniable that this industry is all but fercked beyond repair !

 

[Phillcbr400]

Finding the reg is my problem, yes I'll agree with that hence my post. Could I find it if given enough time, yes. Did I not identify the fault and assess the installation properly? Yes in my eyes. As for more or less calling me incompetent that's not the case. Am I still learning? yes. I am new to inspection and testing. Has your post helped in anyway, no. So maybe if the experienced spent more time helping people willing to learn instead of putting the world to rights, the industry wouldn't be in such a state.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Finding the reg is my problem, yes I'll agree with that hence my post. Could I find it if given enough time, yes. Did I not identify the fault and assess the installation properly? Yes in my eyes. As for more or less calling me incompetent that's not the case. Am I still learning? yes. I am new to inspection and testing. Has your post helped in anyway, no. So maybe if the experienced spent more time helping people willing to learn instead of putting the world to rights, the industry wouldn't be in such a state.

There isnt a specific regulation as such,but bs 7671 specifies that correct materials in accordance with manufacturers instructions and good workmanship shall be used....(134.1.1)
Bs 951 clamps are not designed for SWA and therefore dont meet the requirements.

 

[Phillcbr400]

Just to state my background, been through a 3year apprenticeship with 4 years on the tools. Only recently got my 2395. Been on large installation projects aswell as maintenance work. I'll admit these days I don't get time to stick my head In the book as much as I would like. Am I always learning, of course, who isn't?

 

[Phillcbr400]

Wirepuller thank you for the help it is much appreciated. I aim to spend more time on here from now on to up my game if people are willing to help.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Wirepuller thank you for the help it is much appreciated. I aim to spend more time on here from now on to up my game if people are willing to help.

In a good mood tonight lol. On a recent thread regarding a socket in a bathroom I tore into the OP because a quick read of section 701 would have told him all he needed to know.....it's a whole section on BATHROOMS ffs,anyone with half a brain cell would surely look there first if they weren't sure. But I can understand your issue being a little harder to pin down in the BGB.

 

[Phillcbr400]

It was one of them cases, I needed the reg that stated "using materials fit for purpose" to show my boss. Before I ask any questions I always try to find the answer myself, but in this case I was called to another job. I had a word earlier with my boss about how much time I get doing the EICR's and said I need to be given time to look through my book etc.

 

[Adam W]

I've come across a lot of SWA recently which hasn't been terminated properly - no gland or anything, the wire just cut off and taped up or stuffed into a compression gland. I appreciate if you're not using the armour as CPC it only needs to be earthed at one end, but this just seems lazy.

 

[PEG]

Should really write a coffee-table book regarding "adaptations" encountered,with nice pics and witty comments...some done by ingenious well meaning non-professionals,and some applied by trading electricians...An "earthing" connection i found recently,BS951 clamp,fitted to exposed armour of SWA,closer inspection reveals piece of galvanised pipe under strands,so clamp is not acting on cores.Pipe is 30mm long and not split,so has had cores threaded through,and fitted intentionally.Just why anyone would go to this much trouble,and not spend a few quid to do it right,is a constant quandary.

 

[Darkwood]

I've come across a lot of SWA recently which hasn't been terminated properly - no gland or anything, the wire just cut off and taped up or stuffed into a compression gland. I appreciate if you're not using the armour as CPC it only needs to be earthed at one end, but this just seems lazy.

Note! Needs to be earthed at the supply end 'not one end' a few scenarios can arise where a load end swa earthing only could fail under the BS7671

 

[Robotstar5]

BS951 clamp should be replaced with a proper gland.....:smile5:

 

[davesparks]

The trouble is those lewden glands are actually listed as armoured glands. But they are intended for connecting something entirely different into lewden plugs as far as I know, I think they were meant for spiral flexi conduit type of things but may be wrong.

 

[Engineer54]

BS951 clamp should be replaced with a proper gland.....:smile5:

View attachment 26912

That looks like one of those old T&E glands, ...do they still make them things??

Dave, i think what you are talking about, was a spiral armoured cable that was once quite popular (maybe still is) on factory machines and machine tools that used a very similar type gland to that shown...

Both of these glands may have changed due to IP requirements that are now required...

 

[davesparks]

That looks like one of those old T&E glands, ...do they still make them things??

Dave, i think what you are talking about, was a spiral armoured cable that was once quite popular (maybe still is) on factory machines and machine tools that used a very similar type gland to that shown...

Both of these glands may have changed due to IP requirements that are now required...

Yes that's exactly what I'm talking about, I think I have heard it called metalflex before. I believe the Americans still use a similar cable?

The gland in the picture has got spiral ribs on the back of the clamps to fit into it

Yes they do still make the ones for T&E, lewden make them and their proper name is 'bonding nipples'
The reason for this is that they were originally used for lead sheathed cable and were used to make the earth connection to the lead sheath.

 

[Engineer54]

Yes that's exactly what I'm talking about, I think I have heard it called metalflex before. I believe the Americans still use a similar cable?

The gland in the picture has got spiral ribs on the back of the clamps to fit into it

Yes they do still make the ones for T&E, lewden make them and their proper name is 'bonding nipples'
The reason for this is that they were originally used for lead sheathed cable and were used to make the earth connection to the lead sheath.

I did know they originated from the old lead sheathed cable, and were carried on to provide a means of connecting PVC T&E cable to metal boxes etc. but never heard them called bonding nipples. Though i guess it makes sense!! lol! Not sure how they fare with the IP requirements you now have, they are basically open to the environment. I guess there is always the ''get out of jail'' cure all adhesive Heat Shrink tubing to close everything off!! ...lol!!

Yes a very similar cable is used quite extensively in the States for general wiring, including Domestic's

 

[Bobster]

Or just use jubilee clips.....

 

[PEG]

Lovely,Rob,but,if they were tight,and of the correct size,then they are a bus ride further on than some i've encountered...really will have to get with the 21st century,and post some...:conehead:

 

[Bobster]

I've seen some absolute corkers.

when I get to my PC I'll post a pic of the last one I found.

 

[Robotstar5]

That looks like one of those old T&E glands, ...do they still make them things??

Dave, i think what you are talking about, was a spiral armoured cable that was once quite popular (maybe still is) on factory machines and machine tools that used a very similar type gland to that shown...

Both of these glands may have changed due to IP requirements that are now required...

I always knew them as Henley glands and the cable as metaflex, usually 3 core with rubber sheath then spiral wrapped with steel.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment.

To my mind this is not good workmanship, proper materials have not been used, and I know damn well that the manufacturer's instructions would not agree with the method.

 

[Geordie Spark]

and going by the thread title, should you not be asking eddie stobart?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jn58DZ6Fw&spfreload=10

 

[davesparks]

I did know they originated from the old lead sheathed cable, and were carried on to provide a means of connecting PVC T&E cable to metal boxes etc. but never heard them called bonding nipples. Though i guess it makes sense!! lol! Not sure how they fare with the IP requirements you now have, they are basically open to the environment. I guess there is always the ''get out of jail'' cure all adhesive Heat Shrink tubing to close everything off!! ...lol!!

Yes a very similar cable is used quite extensively in the States for general wiring, including Domestic's

Well I still use them, as far as I know they meet the requirements if used on the sides or bottom of an enclosure, just not the top surface.
Assuming it's not external applications etc.

I've also used them for various temporary/emergency repairs.
One I can remember is when I had to patch up some lead sheathed twin for a couple of days last year whilst I waited for some MICC to be delivered to replace it.

 

[Engineer54]

Well I still use them, as far as I know they meet the requirements if used on the sides or bottom of an enclosure, just not the top surface.
Assuming it's not external applications etc.

I've also used them for various temporary/emergency repairs.
One I can remember is when I had to patch up some lead sheathed twin for a couple of days last year whilst I waited for some MICC to be delivered to replace it.

I've no idea dave i haven't seen those T&E bonding nipples (as you call them), let alone used them for donkey's years now...

 

[davesparks]

If you ever need them they are made by lewden part no. PD435, that's where the name comes from too

 

[Engineer54]

If you ever need them they are made by lewden part no. PD435, that's where the name comes from too

Thanks, but i doubt very much if i'd ever need them again. Where i have needed to gland T&E or other flat formed cable into an enclosure, i've used brass compression glands with the flat formed rubber compression rings (made for flat cable retention)...