2 gang 2 way, 1 each end of the room, odd behaviour

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

I have a bit of an odd situation.

At one end of my living room there's a 2 gang switch and a light, at the other end of the living room there's a 3 gang switch and a light. Both switches control both, far end one also controls the light at the top of the stairs..

The light down the far end of the room works perfectly from both switches.
The light at the top end of the room works from both switches, but only if the switch at the far end is set in one of the 2 positions, if it's in the other position the switch at the near end of the room does nothing.

So, I took the near end switch off the wall to see if I could see anything untoward.

What I have :

Gang 1 - Yellow : L2, Blue : L1, Red : Squiggle sign (I guess that means common/power)

Gang 2 - Yellow : L1, Blue : L2, Red : Squiggle sign

On top of this there is then another mains cable that just has red and black.

The red has been joined up with Gang 2 Blue L2
The black has been joined up Gang 2 Yellow L1

Can anyone suggest why the switches are acting the way they are ?

Thanks muchly!

telectrix · Feb 28, 2017

sounds like standard 2 way switching and from your description, looks correctly wired. i suspect that 1 of the switches is faulty and not making contact on either common-L1 or common-L2.

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

I dont think any of the light switches can be faulty as I can get them both to operate both lights correctly.
For the front switch to operate the front light correctly though, that back switch (for the front light) has to be down and not up.

Lucien Nunes · Feb 28, 2017

As per Tel, the symptom you describe suggests that one of the switches (impossible to tell which one) is not making contact in one position, or either the blue or yellow strapper has lost continuity and is not connecting the two switches together. You can control the light from end A when end B is in a particular position because one of the two contacts / strapper cables is still OK. The faulty one is preventing control at A when B is in the other position.

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Well both switches have been recently replaced (one today in fact), and the behaviour was the same before and after.

If I can make both switches turn the light both on and off I'm baffled as to how a contact is not being made on one of the switches, particularly as they're both new and doing the same thing as was happening before.

Octopus · Feb 28, 2017

The one at the other end of the room is wired incorrectly.

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Front Light Switch unit
On the Left : Yellow in L1, Red in Common, Blue in L2 going to back light.
On the Right : Yellow and Mains Black in L2, Red in Common, Mains Red and Blue going to front light. (ignore the fact the black is disconnected in that pic, its now back in with the yellow)
http://i.Upload the image directly to the thread.com/mgNaCzX.jpg

Back Light Switch Unit Looking from Left To Right, we have
Gang 1 : Black in 1Way, Red In Common, White in 2Way going to back light.
Gang 2 (Middle) White in 1Way, Red in Common, Black in 2way, going to front light.
Gang 3 : Red in Common, White in 1Way, Black in 2way, going to upstairs light.
http://i.Upload the image directly to the thread.com/Hhp8AmV.jpg
http://i.Upload the image directly to the thread.com/4ynKzpL.jpg

Does anything seem untoward ? How does the back one need rewiring if it's wrong?

Des 56 · Feb 28, 2017

Check that the red in the common of that two cable connected switch is definitely the red of the 3-core cable

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Des 56 said:
Check that the red in the common of that two cable connected switch is definitely the red of the 3-core cable

I wondered if that would make any difference. I've tried swapping the reds around it both ways around.

At present the red on it's own is now the 2-core red, but it was the other way before.

Lucien Nunes · Feb 28, 2017

I am afraid the best answer may well be to get an electrician to faultfind it. There are connections somewhere in your walls / ceiling as cables that are red/yellow/blue at one end appear as brown/black/grey at the other. One or more of these could be broken or incorrect and trying to guide you through it, especially as dimmers are involved which you did not originally state, is likely to lead to frustration. This is simple stuff that does not need random swapping-around of wires; a competent person should be able to locate the problem switftly using continuity tests with the circuit safely de-energised. Perhaps someone from the forum could assist?

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Apologies, I dont use the dimmers as dimmers, didn't realise it was worth mentioning. I will in the end go to an electrician obviously but thought it might be something someone might have spotted from the pictures.
I get the message.
Cheers.

Octopus · Feb 28, 2017

^^ good man. decent feed back.

If the colours hadn't changed in the ceiling then this would have been easy to fix.

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Murdoch said:
^^ good man. decent feed back.

If the colours hadn't changed in the ceiling then this would have been easy to fix.

So the back light switch got relocated, the electrician I paid to do it went for Black, White and Red. Out of my hands.

I know this might sound daft, but if it's only down to the colours changing, and there's only 3 wires - surely there can only be a few possibilities to go through on the back switch?

Leader · Feb 28, 2017

I came across this situation, it was incorrect wiring causing this perplexing lighting sequence. As already mentioned, a continuity tester would make easier work of straightening it all out.

Lagentium · Feb 28, 2017

I shall throw my opinion in, incorrectly terminated JB would be my guess, or a switch obviously. Why not get the bloke on the blower who did the job and used the black, white and red cable?

streamer · Feb 28, 2017

Dubster said:
I know this might sound daft, but if it's only down to the colours changing, and there's only 3 wires - surely there can only be a few possibilities to go through on the back switch?

The point is that as the colours have changed there must be some connections somewhere which may be the cause of the problem.

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Lagentium said:
I shall throw my opinion in, incorrectly terminated JB would be my guess, or a switch obviously. Why not get the bloke on the blower who did the job and used the black, white and red cable?

I asked him at the time and he didn't have an answer.

SparkyChick · Feb 28, 2017

I think it's time to have a look in the directory section and find a local spark who knows what they're doing.

Did you get any paperwork (minor works certificate perhaps) from the guy who moved the switch?

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

Sadly not.

sparksburnout · Feb 28, 2017

Possibly didn't want to get his wallet out for a proper spark........

Dubster · Feb 28, 2017

sparksburnout said:
Possibly didn't want to get his wallet out for a proper spark........

Any need for that?

I used an electrician from mybuilder that was listed as qualified and had good feedback.

I can't be arsed being attacked for asking for help. I'll leave it here.
Cheers for trying folks.

Dave OCD · Feb 28, 2017

The terminal layout looks unusual on the 3 gang switch, commons would normally be on their own opposite the L1&L2, I've never seen them made like that before.

sparksburnout · Feb 28, 2017

Dubster said:
Any need for that?

I used an electrician from mybuilder that was listed as qualified and had good feedback.

I can't be arsed being attacked for asking for help. I'll leave it here.
Cheers for trying folks.

No, what you mean is, you didn't want to pay for a spark, so you had a bash yourself, and now its all gone TU? if you did get a spark in, get him back so he can do what you paid him for originally?
Who would get a spark in, and then go through all this??

sparksburnout · Feb 28, 2017

Dubster said:
Any need for that?

I used an electrician from mybuilder that was listed as qualified and had good feedback.

I can't be arsed being attacked for asking for help. I'll leave it here.
Cheers for trying folks.

No, what you mean is, you didn't want to pay for a spark, so you had a bash yourself, and now its all gone TU? if you did get a spark in, get him back so he can do what you paid him for originally?
Who would get a spark in, and then go through all this??

telectrix · Feb 28, 2017

Dave OCD said:
The terminal layout looks unusual on the 3 gang switch, commons would normally be on their own opposite the L1&L2, I've never seen them made like that before.

it's schneider, so anything can happen. seen similar on an old crabtree switch that i replaced once.

DPG · Mar 1, 2017

Dubster said:
Any need for that?

I used an electrician from mybuilder that was listed as qualified and had good feedback.

I can't be arsed being attacked for asking for help. I'll leave it here.
Cheers for trying folks.

No need to be like that. You've had good advice, but without seeing the hidden wiring it's going to be very difficult to say for definite what is wrong. What is the reason for not getting the guy back to fix it - you've paid him for something and he hasn't done it properley - get him to do the job right!

Daz