Become an Electrician in 18 days!

T

Thor

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So seeing post ads on local community groups on Facebook advertising Kitchen and bathroom refute minor electrical work done.

This really gets my back up and think the system is a complete joke. They may have served a electeical apprentiship for 4years like most of us, but probably just done a part p course for 2 weeks and become 'qualified'. How do they have knowledge and experience in 2 weeks ? Is there a register that only people with apprentiships can go on ? I'm thinking of just getting a gold card for the sake of showing customers.


Gggrrrrr
 
So who would you want to do the electrics in your kitchen or bathroom refit a boil in the bag/Electrical Trainee who has got this part P T&I &17th and done practically in a booth with no/little on-site experience or an apprentice who has not got formal qualifications but has four years experience?
 
anthonybragg said:
So who would you want to do the electrics in your kitchen or bathroom refit a boil in the bag/Electrical Trainee who has got this part P T&I &17th and done practically in a booth with no/little on-site experience or an apprentice who has not got formal qualifications but has four years experience?
Click to expand...
None of em I would do it myself:p
 
anthonybragg said:
Well I suppose the hardest thing for you is to decide which tool to use:rolleyes:.
Click to expand...
Not really, just the right tool for the job, the difficult part is making sure (or should that be Shir) the tools are returned to their proper slot, and some thieving so and so ain't put them in their own tool bag, "camerabloke"
 
Customers do not usually ask about training or qualifications, or request a full history of training and experience. They seem to accept the builder's "electrician"or a few fancy stickers on the van. A recent one I was at, probably a proper sparky pulled the fuse and did the tails as they were squeaky tight but the rest was an absolute mess, knitted wires and terminals finger tight. Customer said they had an awful job with it tripping and pulled up floor boards again.
 
Carrying out domestic electrical work is no big deal and certainly not rocket science
Probably most tradesmen who can handle a hammer and a screwdriver would have the skill necessary to do a half decent job (if they follow what they are told is required);)
As for testing,we tend to go way overboard with our regime
 
I suppose if someone who did do an 18 day course turn up at a customers property and do a really good job I dont think the customer would care if he done a 4 year apprenticeship or not if truth be told.
 
To be honest I think we should show what we have. It gets to me because what was the point of doing an apprentiship when I could done a 18 day course and get paid full wack. Like whats been said . Consumers havent a clue and just want the cheapest price.
 
Thor said:
So seeing post ads on local community groups on Facebook advertising Kitchen and bathroom refute minor electrical work done.
Gggrrrrr
Click to expand...

you lost me ........... what has this got to do with the title of the thread?
 
I was wondering about some of the latest replies, what do people think of the advertising that goes into the local rags, free magazines etc, the cost of running these publications is advertising revenue, and where do you think that comes from? Bert from down the Pub more than likely, if you believe that the editors of these rags care where the cash comes from you are mistaken, where is the policing of these adverts, that's why you are getting more and more cowboy jobs being done, because anyone can call themselves an Electrician, Plumber or whatever, there are no checks on peoples qualifications etc, still I suppose that free enterprise at work, I have seen it first hand. Sorry if it's gone off piste.
 
Thor said:
@Murdoch it has everything to do with the post. People don't care what you have as they don't understand and just use the cheapest quote. Buy cheap buy twice.
Click to expand...

Refute ?

I have looked it up on a dictionary and a thesaurus and still don’t understand ...
 
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Massive1 said:
I suppose if someone who did do an 18 day course turn up at a customers property and do a really good job I dont think the customer would care if he done a 4 year apprenticeship or not if truth be told.
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That depends on your definition of "a really good job" - to a lot of domestic customers they want their tradesman to turn up on time in a clean van, have a tidy haircut, be 'polite' (to a lot of people this constitutes pronouncing your consonants), have a transparent pricing structure, clean up after themselves and above all, talk a good game.

Ironically none of this is taught in either course, and probably why a lot of people assume all the lucrative easy money the papers are always talking about is theirs for the taking.
 
Don't know if any of you have heard of it or registered for it but there is a new scheme called RESET its becoming mandatory if you want to undertake council or PFI maintenance work. It's basicly a scheme that allows the customer to see full QUALIFICATIONS by scanning card . Due to the Hacket report we will se more and more drive towards accreditations and accountability for design and certification in all trades. Can only be a good thing but wee Joe from down the pub will always be cheaper due to not having any formal accreditation costs and the avg householder just wants the job done as cheap as possible these days. Only larger jobs /contracts require formal checks for skilled workers and companies
 
The title of the thread was "Become an electrician in 18 days"
Now the culprits who pressed the dislikes on my post now need to post their opinions
If the customer is happy with the work carried out by the 18 day guy,who is laughing all the way to the bank,its certainly not the 4 year guy who was on low money and missed the party life due to required study time
I wish these instant "post a dislike" guys would actually take a moment to use that brain they conveniently forget is there to formulate opinion,its not just there to press the dummy button every so often, with little to no thought on the matter in hand

We operate in a trade that has a vast scope,it can entail complex calculations, a very technical mind to enable problems to be solved,it can entail a very high level of practical skill that may take years to accomplish,it may also entail basic electrical work that you can teach a monkey to perform in a few days

We have a tendency to bull up this trade as if it was some sort of occupation that was only performed by the elite in society

This trade can be a fine occupation,it can stimulate deep thinking and it has levels that even the best can struggle to attain
It also has a large section that requires very little skill (other than what can be acquired by most in a short space of time)

I have met people who took to electrics like a duck to water,they would outshine many domestic sparks after a few short weeks
I have also met many sparks who after a few years of training would not fill me with confidence if they worked without supervision
The time served is dependant on the complexity of the work that is intended,a short time training and a bit of hands on experience is about all that domestic sparking requires
 
Des 56 said:
The title of the thread was "Become an electrician in 18 days"
Now the culprits who pressed the dislikes on my post now need to post their opinions
If the customer is happy with the work carried out by the 18 day guy,who is laughing all the way to the bank,its certainly not the 4 year guy who was on low money and missed the party life due to required study time
I wish these instant "post a dislike" guys would actually take a moment to use that brain they conveniently forget is there to formulate opinion,its not just there to press the dummy button every so often, with little to no thought on the matter in hand

We operate in a trade that has a vast scope,it can entail complex calculations, a very technical mind to enable problems to be solved,it can entail a very high level of practical skill that may take years to accomplish,it may also entail basic electrical work that you can teach a monkey to perform in a few days

We have a tendency to bull up this trade as if it was some sort of occupation that was only performed by the elite in society

This trade can be a fine occupation,it can stimulate deep thinking and it has levels that even the best can struggle to attain
It also has a large section that requires very little skill (other than what can be acquired by most in a short space of time)

I have met people who took to electrics like a duck to water,they would outshine many domestic sparks after a few short weeks
I have also met many sparks who after a few years of training would not fill me with confidence if they worked without supervision
The time served is dependant on the complexity of the work that is intended,a short time training and a bit of hands on experience is about all that domestic sparking requires
Click to expand...
Hi Des, I was one of the dislike posters, the reason for the dis like, was not personal at all, my reason, unlike other trades, electrics cal kill instantly, and diving non trades people advice is something, I wouldn't do, as I feel is a dangerous thing to do, imagine telling a Chippy how to do something electrical, only to find he has done so, and in the process, hurt himself or a customer of his, or worse still a member of his family. Your comment about other trades can be far better work than some of the newly qualified guys, can in some cases be a true comment, however I personally try never to give advice to non electricians, as I like to sleep at night, sorry if found my dislike not to your liking, nothing personal as I have said, and neither was it a knee jerk opinion, I simply felt it was wrong, hence the dislike.
 
My question on these courses is would people feel happy with some one who had just completed a 18 day mechanics course (previous ability or experience unknown but certainly a possibility of zero). Servicing and then MOT certifying a coach that your kids went on a school trip in. That in my mind is a similar level of responsibility and skill. But I don't think the school would be using that coach provider if they found out.
 
Wonky shelves...carpenter could have done better, nobody dies
Wonky plumbing, wetpants could have done better, nobody dies
Wonky gas fitter...somebody may die
Wonky electrician...somebody probably will die,especially as electrical work is held up to be a DIY thing
Wonky surgeon...somebody might die, but it's much harder to prove blame...but they do get paid quite well
Wonky footballer...very unlikely anybody will die, many will spend money on them, far too much money to watch their team play, more than they can/should really afford, and yet while the footballer earns a million times more than any of the above, people will pay their wages because that's how the world works...while neglecting the safety of their families and homes, people lavish money on players who contribute very little, and yet think they are the dogs' -------s, the mutts' nuts, the canines' cojones...

As ever, those who add real value are valued least...
Rant over!
 
The wooden leg is a problem, for sure...
The hook is more so...
but I don't wear a pointy hat these days as a bandana is way more cool!
 
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.
 
Thor said:
So seeing post ads on local community groups on Facebook advertising Kitchen and bathroom refute minor electrical work done.

This really gets my back up and think the system is a complete joke. They may have served a electeical apprentiship for 4years like most of us, but probably just done a part p course for 2 weeks and become 'qualified'. How do they have knowledge and experience in 2 weeks ? Is there a register that only people with apprentiships can go on ? I'm thinking of just getting a gold card for the sake of showing customers.


Gggrrrrr
Click to expand...
soapbox.jpg
 
Baddegg said:
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right Mate, there will always be exceptional people who have taken the short route to becoming an electrician, I have said this on many occasions during my rants on this subject, we have some of these people as Forum members.
 
Baddegg said:
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right Mate, there will always be exceptional people who have taken the short route to becoming an electrician, I have said this on many occasions during my rants on this subject, we have some of these people as Forum members.
 
Baddegg said:
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.
Click to expand...



So after all of 18 days training and some time in the building industry,you feel confident to assess the competence technical ability and general competence of time served electricians :rolleyes:
 
Des 56 said:
So after all of 18 days training and some time in the building industry,you feel confident to assess the competence technical ability and general competence of time served electricians :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Thought that was the way of the forum des? Assessing peoples skill level purely on what a bit of paper says is commonplace on here isn’t it? :)
 
just to clarify I’m not assessing competency of all electricians,just the ones I’ve met whilst training for the best part of 2 years, and asked questions of,to judge a whole group of people would be wrong wouldn’t it? Bit like saying all short course electricians (sorry domestic installers) are useless........oh hang on......Or conversely all time served electricians know everything? We both know neither statement is true
 
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just to clarify I’m not assessing competency of all electricians,just the ones I’ve met whilst training for the best part of 2 years,

Short course training has been to the detriment of the overall standard of what constituted being an electrician

Becoming an electrician these days is much much easier than what was typical years ago
The trade has been sectioned into various little sectors,these sector are filled by "electricians" who usually have no idea about the other skills that were expected of them,we have become a bit part trade

An example of that is the likes of yourself after a short training course, a few weeks in a class room and just 2 years on site learning a trade that at one time took 4 - 5 years of intense training, it also took quite a few years after that gaining experience in a all round capacity
For that person then to make judgement on other longer trained electricians!
The probability being, that person does not comprehend what it "actually"requires to operate in anything other than the very basic sector of the trade that is domestic installation
 
Des I’m not an electrician,never claimed to be, that doesn’t mean I can’t make judgments on other people, it’s the human condition I’m afraid and also a hard win right for our ansestors, the world is changing everything is instant these days, I think it’s also fair to assume what it takes a 16-19 yr old to do in 4/5 years an adult could reasonably do in 2/3? an adult in most cases will take in and retain knowledge. The all round capacity you refer to is what I’m doing now,this forum being one of the places I strive to constantly improve my knowledge in the domestic sector, the more I learn the more I learn to sort the wheat from the chaff, your opinions of me and many others on here like me will only drive me on.
Please don’t make assumptions that because I spent my apprenticeship butchering wood it doesn’t mean I can’t learn another trade at a different point in my lifeI am doing it as we speak, the internet is a great tool for that sort of thing,and any adversity or condemnation from people on here will not stop me I assure you,so judge away my friend call me names and pidgin hole me I’ll be fine x
I can also assure you I didn’t join this forum to antagonise or annoy anyone I just want to expand my knowledge.
 
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You disagreed when I stated that any decent tradesman can carry out domestic electrics if he is shown what is required
"I" did not condemn the short course trained in that situation you did by disagreeing

You took it upon yourself to make judgement of others who have had longer training than yourself
I am( probably unjustly)using "your criteria" to judge"you" in comparison to what I understand should be the minimum for competence
 
Des I disagreed that any decent tradesman can carry out domestic works on the basis that I have seen some extremely good builders attempt electrical installation and be happy that all works but I myself have learnt that it’s not just about everything working,so much more to it....just to reiterate my point was that longer training does not always produce better tradesmen any more than short courses alwasys produce poor tradesmen, I’m sure you’ve met many time served sparks who have left you shaking your head?
Admittedly they are in the minority and I would like to add that I have learnt more from picking the brains of any time served spark good enough to put up with my questions than I have from any other source.
I think I’ll refrain from just disagreeing in future and offer an explanation of why, I can understand your point there and I apologise for that.
As before des I didn’t come on here to wind people up I just want to be the best and safest I can.
 
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