Part P

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Discuss Part P in the Australia area at ElectriciansForums.net

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DurhamSparky

Just to sum it up


Part P is a building Regulation that is statutory and which must be followed when carrying out electrical work in domestic property.

Part P is NOT a qualification and any body going around saying they are Part P qualified and have a certificate are talking Bull....!! You DO NOT need to do a 2 week VRQ course
Electrical Course | Part P Electricial Course like this one with a training scheme to register as a Competent Person.

YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT....!! this can be achieved by undertaking formal Electrical Quals at a college or by a training provider...!!

You do however need to know about the building Regs and Part P....!! you can download Approved Document P from the planning portal website.

The following schemes are the most popular with domestic sparks. Elecsa, Niceic and Napit. Upon registration with them you will be required to conduct a formal technical site assessment that will involve you changing or modifying the electrical set up drastically (Rewire/ Cu Change)

If you pass the assessment you are then freely allowed to carry out work in areas designated by building control that fall under the Part P umbrella http://www.partp.co.uk/downloads/public/CLGbuildingworkleaflet.pdf and any work that you carry out can be notified and signed off through them (the schemes) at a small cost (£2-4) and they will inform LABC for you.

If you decide not to register with a Part P scheme. be preared that notification of work to LABC can cost hundreds of pounds and drastically increase your price. They will also expect you to still carry out the tests and paperwork before they arrive to SIGN IT OFF


Recommended courses to do are:

A formal Technical Certificate that is achieved at Level 3 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e

C&G 2330 or BTEC Advanced/National Diploma.... This gives you the Underpinning Knowledge to build on. (achieved via college or distance learning 18months - 24months is time scale)

You will also Need 17th Edition Wiring Regulations C&G 2382 (if you dont have this you wont get any where in the trade.)

NVQ 3 2356 (its a Craft Certificate that although not needed is very desirable and normally achieved when doing an Apprenticeship but now freely available to "Bolt on" to your current Qualifications via distant learning.

C&G 2391 the ultimate qualification in the electrical world..! Inspection and Testing only to be achieved with considerable site and technical knowledge, closed book exam with a 30-40% pass rate.

C&G 2392 (lesser qualification of the 2391 and aimed at new sparks with little knowledge of inspection and testing, normally used as a starter course to grasp the fundamentals of what's required)

Signing off your work..!!!

you DO NOT need 2391 to sign of your work but you will be expected to have knowledge of inspection and testing to an achievable standard required to carry out and fill in the test results.
You also do not Need 2391 to carry out PIR's but should any thing happen and you go to court the 2391 certificate is your lifeline to prove competence in the field.



hope this helps...

comments and alterations welcome
 
Last edited by a moderator:
just seems to be the same questions over and over again..! hi im new what do i need..!! or i have been a spark for 20 years and can i sign off without 2391... blah blah!!

feel free to amend as seen fit or emphasis on it more..!
 
ALOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO FRIGHTEND TO CALL BODIES & ASK, me included:D

you need insurance aswell to be registerd right???

i need to buy part-p document or download it!!:eek:

so say i was to do a pir & they never had fire alarm's, does that mean they are not compliant???

do home seller's need pir's???
 
you need public liability to insure your work and indemnity if you were to offer your professional services in respect of periodic inspections.
 
quick question on part p

Steve your post cleared up quite a few things, but could you tell me how long you get to register a job?
I've just rewired a house that I'm moving into, I'm not with any of the schemes napit elecsa etc.

If I'm to use my house as a job for an assement, how long will the council wait until I get approved by a scheme?

I'm a fully qualified JIB spark btw
 
un officially it`s up to you when you did the work and when you get your membership if you were to notify it online with your scheme provider
 
i notified a cu replacement that i used for my assessment when i got my membership through mate, it was not a year but if you have done it to the regs and no body is any the wiser i would say it is up to you when you do register it althoguh that is not an official answer. when are you joining a scheme?
 
phil7677 said:
i notified a cu replacement that i used for my assessment when i got my membership through mate, it was not a year but if you have done it to the regs and no body is any the wiser i would say it is up to you when you do register it althoguh that is not an official answer. when are you joining a scheme?
Click to expand...

looking at joining a scheme as soon as really, not got the 17th yet so may have to sort that out first as the op states you need your 17th, although the elecsa website says it is preferred but not a requirement, if I have read it right
 
"You may still pass the assessment by demonstrating competence through your thorough understanding of the IEE Wiring Regulations without a qualification but you will be required to achieve the qualifications within the first 12 months of your registration."
 
phil7677 said:
"You may still pass the assessment by demonstrating competence through your thorough understanding of the IEE Wiring Regulations without a qualification but you will be required to achieve the qualifications within the first 12 months of your registration."
Click to expand...

yep thats what I meant;)
 
give them a ring mate tell them what quals you have and take it from there they are friendly set up there and will sort you out.
 
Thanks Steve, but one question (don't bite me head off): I'm saving up money to get on the NICEIC, so in the mean time can I do a full scope part P course to be able to sign of my work and not have to pay building control or would I have to pay building control anyway? my highest cert is 17th edition.
 
Jason.S said:
You either pay your LABC to notify or join a scheme.
Click to expand...

rang my LABC today and they say they stopped doing this service as its not in the interest of their residents, since an electrician using this service would have to charge more. more jobs for the pro's I guess ;)
 
Damn, just joined the forum, it said I was logged in, spent 21 mins typing loads of info and questions on part P, clicked submit and it said I do not have permission and booted me out.
I then had to read my email and log in again. ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGG

Oh, hello everyone...

I am new to this, so will try again tomorrow, lol

Eliminator Guy :eek:
 
ELIMINATOR GUY said:
Damn, just joined the forum, it said I was logged in, spent 21 mins typing loads of info and questions on part P, clicked submit and it said I do not have permission and booted me out.
I then had to read my email and log in again. ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGG

Oh, hello everyone...

I am new to this, so will try again tomorrow, lol

Eliminator Guy :eek:
Click to expand...

you might want to post it here but welcome all the same :)
 
odigi said:
rang my LABC today and they say they stopped doing this service as its not in the interest of their residents, since an electrician using this service would have to charge more. more jobs for the pro's I guess ;)
Click to expand...

Part P says the work must be notified before work commences, unless you're in a scheme.

I would suggest that as long as you tell your lbc and you carry out the work to bs7671, then you have complied with the law.

What they do once you notify is up to them, but by my reading of the part p document I would suggest that you are are covered.
 
Morning folks, I will try again as I need some advice.

I was 40 last week and when I left school I worked with my dad for a few years doing domestic installation (he was a self emlpoyed spark) I then moved on to other things like working in warehouse then moved on to HGV driving. Then 2 years ago I got type 1 diabetes. Due to taking insulin dvla took my HGV licence away, so I have been trying to get back into the domestic installation game, at the start of this year I went to collage to sign up for a 2330 course, but was told that city & guilds have withdrawn the 2330 from sept 2010 so I would not be able to do it.
So I phoned the NICEIC and asked them what do I need to legaly do domestic house rewires on my own, the NIC told me I need 17th and part "P" then I could do full or part domestic installation rewires, then give them £435+VAT and they would inspect 2 of my jobs, if all is good, I would be registered and approved by NICEIC.

So I went to a private training course and did my IEE 17th edition last month, then did my part "P" 2 weeks ago, but after reading the start of this thread, I feel that I have wasted my time,

What I need to know is, now I have passed both of these how does it work...

If I do a full house rewire and want to sign my work off, were do I get the certificates from ?

or

Do I do the rewire then phone NICEIC and once they have tested my work, do they give me the certificates ?

Any advice would be great.
thanks

Eliminator Guy
 
Certificates can be copied from the Wiring Regs Book (big red one) or Approved doc P.
You can also download them from NICEIC ELESA NAPIT etc.
 
if the nic are still the same they will require you to use their own certs which you can order direct fromm them or from city electrical if you want to save on the postage costs.
 
phil7677 said:
if the nic are still the same they will require you to use their own certs which you can order direct fromm them or from city electrical if you want to save on the postage costs.
Click to expand...

I just phoned my local city electrical factors and they said they don't do anything like that, would prob have to get them from NICEIC.

What is the cert I issue actually called as I have seen some saying 17th edition and others saying part P domestic installation ?

Thanks
 
ELIMINATOR GUY said:
What is the cert I issue actually called as I have seen some saying 17th edition and others saying part P domestic installation ?

Thanks
Click to expand...

an electrical installation certificate (EIC)

minor works (MW)

PIR periodic,
i thought you said you had done the part p course mate? if so they really should have enlightened you on the certs, don`t take it as a criticism to you it`s directed at the course, it`s really shocking that you could do a course and not know which certs and what they are called.
 
Yes, I have just done the part P, but it was that rushed, it was a lot to take in at once. lol thats why I am double checking on here before I do anything;)
 
If you mean scheme = niceic or something then no, it does not include it.

The part P, I did was a private training DISQ qualification for £595 + VAT and that was for a 1 week course and your test.
 
From the NICEIC website

The qualification is achieved following successful completion of all 14 modular components, each of which has either practical assessment units and/or multiple choice theory assessment units. The modular components cover the significant aspects of electrical installations practices associated with domestic premises and when completed will satisfy the competency requirements of the Government Approved Competent Persons Schemes.

The DISQ is a 5 day programme comprising of training and assessment, to meet all the needs of the competent person scheme



You may or may not agree with my comments, however I need to make these comments because I feel the Niceic is, and has bee,n destroying the domestic sector for the traditional spark



There is no critisism of yourself intended with my comments,because this course was hopefully intended for people with the on the job experience that you have but who lack qualification for domestic installs covered by part p building regs

There is no evidence of on the job experience or training required as a pre requisit for entry on to their course that I could find,so they just sign them on,charge a lot of money then sign them up


How do they possibly think that 5 days of training manages to give the theoretical and practical skills required before being let loose on the unsuspecting customer, wholly unprepared unskilled workers , with the endorsment of that deplorable organisation the Niceic the customer may be unknowingly re assured by registration with that contemptable lot

What takes many people years of hard work and study ,to then find that an organisation such as the Niceic promotes this sort of thing is pathetic and annoying

If I were a member of that shoddy outfit I would make it known to them that they are selling the trade of electrician down the river for a few bob in training fees :mad:




There got that off my chest :)
 
some people are clever & can pick things up quick, but ive been at it for 6 years & still ask questions.
im jib approved & get anchious when im not sure on somthing & no some sparks who aint got a clue if it aint metal munching or provided with a desighned drawing.
i wouldnt let someone do gas or electric in my house on the back of a week's course:eek:
 
nice to see my thread is been utilised just how i would have wnated it too!! keep it up guys.

EIC / MW and PIR forms can be found in bs7671 towards the back!! alternatively they can be bought on ebay downloaded from various schemes websites!! (i like elecsa ones as they are simple and not full of junk) or created on software that cost millions of pounds!! :)
 
Afternoon all,

May as well make my second ever post!
Like Eliminator Guy above I re-trained and took a couple of courses. Mine were with Trade Skills 4U. I had worked in broadcast electronics since leaving school and have a HND in electronic engineering. I was made redundant about three years ago and discovered what people had been telling me for years- namely that when I get to 50 no one will want me.
So I decided to spend some of my redundancy pay on some re-training and TradeSkills 4U were fairly local in Crawley. Plus, since I had spent most of my adult life (and much of my childhood) thinking about amps, volts and ohms I didn't think the courses would be that difficult. In fact I found all the electrical theory a breeze- it was the rules and regs I wasn't prepared for. I did a basic electrical installation course which entailed a week being supervised by an experienced electrician and having to assemble various circuits on a board. All these circuits were tested for R1+R2, insualtion etc under DC conditions. There was no certificate for this course but I subsequently did an EAL Domestic Installers course (4385), C&G BS7671 and C&G level 2 testing and initial verification. Armed with these bits of paper I then put a small advert in our local paper for Minor Works, just to gain some experience. I had approached a few building firms locally to get some experience but they all had insufficient work to keep their regular Sparkys busy. I also found, somewhat depressingly, that my ad in the local attracted more calls from out of work Sparkys than business from clients. Anyway, undeterred I have accumulated about 20 Minor Works jobs and am in the process of applying for Elecsa membership. My aged aunty's house needs a new CU and some other minor work and i intend doing that and submitting it for the Elecsa inspection.

My experiences with the training organisations is that during the good times their main business comes from electrical contractors who send their trainees along for an intensive course. During recessions such as we have just had their main business is from people investing their redundancy pay. Virtually all the people doing the courses that I was on were all recently made redundant. A few dropped out after a few days on the basic course- they were so out of their depth. Others who mwere a bit more savvy stayed the disitance but I'm not sure how many woulkd actually go into the trade.
My ambition is to get the Elecsa acreditation and spend the last 15 years of my working life jobbing Domestic work.
 
Don't bite my head off if I have missed a point Gents just joined today, as you can see from my first post I am in the trade.

Breathe deep..According to the London Borough of Redbridge Building Control, I still have to notify them of any work I do and have it signed off by the Building Inspector PRIOR to my application to register with a body, because I am qualified and am able to Verify, Inspect and test and fill the forms out to BS 7671 they will only charge me £75 Per Visit (Gee thanks) instead of £200 per visit, according to them it is illegal to do any work whether it is for the purpose of a registration or not, ONCE I have these two signed of examples of work I then present these for inspection by my chosen body to register for Part P...Is that a fair assessment of the procedure ?

ATB Steve B
 
Steve Breeds said:
Don't bite my head off if I have missed a point Gents just joined today, as you can see from my first post I am in the trade.

Breathe deep..According to the London Borough of Redbridge Building Control, I still have to notify them of any work I do and have it signed off by the Building Inspector PRIOR to my application to register with a body, because I am qualified and am able to Verify, Inspect and test and fill the forms out to BS 7671 they will only charge me £75 Per Visit (Gee thanks) instead of £200 per visit, according to them it is illegal to do any work whether it is for the purpose of a registration or not, ONCE I have these two signed of examples of work I then present these for inspection by my chosen body to register for Part P...Is that a fair assessment of the procedure ?

ATB Steve B
Click to expand...

That's correct Steve- though different councils seem to have different rules. When I contacted Elecsa they said that some councils don't require the building regs payment on a job that is going to be used for evaluation.Others are more strict. Not so with London Borough of Ealing where my aunty lives. They charged me £192.24 for building control notice on the basis of the work costing less than £500. They weren't interested in what exams I'd passed- only the fact that I wasn't an existing member of a recognised trade body. I believe that when you are accepted within the Elecsa enclave they charge £1.50 per building notice.

On the Tradeskills4U courses I did the trade bodies like Elecsa and NICEIC were referred to as "The Scam Clubs"!:D
 
Hi everybody

I was hoping to get some answers because i'll be honest some of the qualifications are confusing me. I am looking to retrain as I have a degree in computing and absolutely hate everything about it.

I understand that the first qualification i would need would be the Certificate in Electro Technical Technology level 2 and then level 3. Am I right in assuming that I need to be working in the field to be able to do level 3? What time scales does it take to gain these? I read earlier in the thread about 18months to 24 but does that one level or both? A college close to me does level 2 over 34 weeks, 1 day a week.

After that I believe i would need to look at getting 17th edition.

Am i right here or am I talking complete nonsense.
Thanks
 
any order you want!!! i suggest doing 17th as early as possible as its a good course for referencing your Level 2/3 work against as you will be using it every day!! if you learn the book the therory will follow!! then you put all that in to practice during level 3 (if you can) or when you finish level 3 and do the NVQ!
 
I've found the route as clear as mud - and I suspect the colleges and 'oversight' bodies like to keep it that way!

I did 2330 L2/L3 in at evening classes over two years - it just seemed like five ... Then I crammed in 2382 via on-line learning packages, and found a college that would allow me just to sit the (PC-based) exam for about £60.

I then did 2391 in a 4-day course and found that more useful than 2330 and 2382 combined. Did the 2382 and 2391 in space of about 2 months after finishing 2330 L3 - having it all fresh in my mind helped, but the best way would be take you time and get lots of practical experience first.

Now the real learning begins ... :)

With your computer background you may find some of the college course way too long - but if they can make a course last two years instead of just one that's more dosh to the colleges...
 
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