Part P

[DurhamSparky]

Just to sum it up


Part P is a building Regulation that is statutory and which must be followed when carrying out electrical work in domestic property.

Part P is NOT a qualification and any body going around saying they are Part P qualified and have a certificate are talking Bull....!! You DO NOT need to do a 2 week VRQ course
Electrical Course | Part P Electricial Course like this one with a training scheme to register as a Competent Person.

YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT....!! this can be achieved by undertaking formal Electrical Quals at a college or by a training provider...!!

You do however need to know about the building Regs and Part P....!! you can download Approved Document P from the planning portal website.

The following schemes are the most popular with domestic sparks. Elecsa, Niceic and Napit. Upon registration with them you will be required to conduct a formal technical site assessment that will involve you changing or modifying the electrical set up drastically (Rewire/ Cu Change)

If you pass the assessment you are then freely allowed to carry out work in areas designated by building control that fall under the Part P umbrella http://www.partp.co.uk/downloads/public/CLGbuildingworkleaflet.pdf and any work that you carry out can be notified and signed off through them (the schemes) at a small cost (£2-4) and they will inform LABC for you.

If you decide not to register with a Part P scheme. be preared that notification of work to LABC can cost hundreds of pounds and drastically increase your price. They will also expect you to still carry out the tests and paperwork before they arrive to SIGN IT OFF


Recommended courses to do are:

A formal Technical Certificate that is achieved at Level 3 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e

C&G 2330 or BTEC Advanced/National Diploma.... This gives you the Underpinning Knowledge to build on. (achieved via college or distance learning 18months - 24months is time scale)

You will also Need 17th Edition Wiring Regulations C&G 2382 (if you dont have this you wont get any where in the trade.)

NVQ 3 2356 (its a Craft Certificate that although not needed is very desirable and normally achieved when doing an Apprenticeship but now freely available to "Bolt on" to your current Qualifications via distant learning.

C&G 2391 the ultimate qualification in the electrical world..! Inspection and Testing only to be achieved with considerable site and technical knowledge, closed book exam with a 30-40% pass rate.

C&G 2392 (lesser qualification of the 2391 and aimed at new sparks with little knowledge of inspection and testing, normally used as a starter course to grasp the fundamentals of what's required)

Signing off your work..!!!

you DO NOT need 2391 to sign of your work but you will be expected to have knowledge of inspection and testing to an achievable standard required to carry out and fill in the test results.
You also do not Need 2391 to carry out PIR's but should any thing happen and you go to court the 2391 certificate is your lifeline to prove competence in the field.



hope this helps...

comments and alterations welcome

 

[telectrix]

My m8 has been a sparky for 40 odd years so he is taking me under his wing for the next year but he is not up to date with test he just does work and his pal tests and passes it etc I dont know the crack there but works for him. I just want basics so i can pass and test my own work. I would never do anything i thought would hurt someone( i dont fancy going to jail or killing someone) moving sockets running cables etc nowt to much. i agree with everyone on here about ppl that just jump on part p and go yeah baby im a sparky etc ( same as me doing 4 years plastering and someone does 4days and tells me its the same) but they can plaster but they are not at the same level I'm If you understand my point. Just want to be safe and pass my own work with out doing 4 years or more at college and im not wanting a micky mouse ticket at the same time. I will always call a sparky if its past my skill level not chancing others or my own life.

working with your mate for a year or so will give you more knowledge than any short training course. be an idea to spend a bit of time with the tester/s so you get an idea of what's involved. IMO, a good approach to the job, coupled with practical experience is worth more thasn any bit of paper qualification going.

 

[woofwoof]

If you speak to the NICEIC they will tell you the minimum requirement is 17edition and Part P (or DISQ) these courses will only prove you know the basics, being time served is the only true way of being an electrician.

Hope this helps

After specking to them Eliminator guy you only need 17th Ed and then you pay them £379 plus vat(a year) for them to test 2 of your jobs and then thats it. You dont need the part p the bloke i was taking to said its being changed/scraped soon anyways. So thank you again for the info to that company like really thank you saved me a load of money.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

New to me that one, things change all the time, I have no faith in NICEIC or NAPIT or the rest, All that is required is "work must be carried out by a competent person" and that's it.
To register with one of them just means you can use their logo on your van and website, so not worth over £400 per year for that to me.
I'm sure some guys will disagree, but we all have are own opinions.

At the end of the day, you just need to be 100% sure you know what you are doing and it's going to be SAFE !

There is no substitute for experience so if you can get someone to work along side for 12 months, then you will gain more than any £400 logo

regards

Eliminator

 

[h4r00n]

Currently I am studying for my EAL 2330 Level 2. Before reading this thread I was about to embark upon the 'part p' course the college has to offer. The lecturers are so persistant to get us onto this course because apparently it might soon change to a full nvq which will cost a few grand and take a year to complete, whereas the 'part p' course costs £900. This part p course is for 10 days, 1 day a week.

A few classmates have signed up for this course but I have been sceptical as to whether it is a waste of money or not. If part p course proves competency then I would rather voluntarily work for 10 weeks rather than study for 10 days. Surely passing the NICEIC or ELECSA application process including the 2 observations will prove that you are competent.

I think what I will do is complete my eal 2330 level 2 and possibly level 3 this September, meanwhile complete the 17th edition regs course which lasts around 4 days. (Although I do not understand why I need to complete this 17th Regs course because all I learn at 2330 is around the newer 17th edition anyway.

I can then contact a part p regulator such as elecsa, napit or niceic, pay them around £400 and get them to inspect 2 of my works. Then become registered with them and take things from there.

So EAL 2330 L2 and 17th edition should be enough to get a PART P REGULATORY BODY to inspect my work and take me on. I don't want to folk out £900 for a 'part p course' at college. I feel its a scam as there is no actual qualification nor certification. Perhaps it is for those that cannot get practical experience?

What do you guys reckon? Does this sound sensible?

 

[reefagrim]

Part P the industry's champion ! however on a personal note i do find it a bit of a con am i just saying this! . no i will say after working for the NICEIC for 5 years as a Part P assessor even they know its a licence to print money and with the ESC warning everyone of imcompetant electricans its doom and gloom but just so you know . The ESC are a charity set up by the NICEIC and if you look closly your find many members of the establishment working there also same goes with the IET with former NICEIC staff currently working there. Says a lot the watchdogs whom look over us are entwined very much to each other and serving their needs. This is what i find wrong .. For all the time i worked as a part p assessor i will say that i found that there are some exellent electricians out there doing a good job but on the other hand there are some terrible electricains out there who shouldnt be allowed to wire a plug. The effect that part p had on the industry was that anyone who could fulfill a set number of questions and that the had a understanding of the electrical regulation could be passed and allowed to undertake domestic work ... The problem is that the training centers have admitted that they activly tell the students the answers and teach them not so much the regulations and the pratices of the electrical trade but more to be able to pass the exam. how someone with little trade experience could be deemed as competant as me in 2 weeks i find very worrying after all when i started i had to undertake a 4 year apprenticeship followed with number of exams am1 am2 2367 2368 etc etc ( ps if you llok of the city and guild web site your find that the 2367/8 no longer corrispond to electrical worried about your career now?)But also the part p scheme has its faults and its failures it was set up to ensure that the trade is governed not so much correctly just governed. how many of you have entered into a premise and found non compliant work that has been undertaken scine the part p scheme came to pass. Building control are not watching to see everything is being done correctly the actual document part p refers to the bs7671 so much that it should just have the line ( do what it say's in the bs7671 ) they effectivly sort of washed their hands of it and therefore let the industry run it .. how many building control persons actually know the regs and part enough to make you feel that your doing the right thing . After all if they turn up you want them gone asap and they dont want to get to involved unless its actually staring them in the face.Hence the governing bodies all get their slice of the pie .. every year a reminder is sent with the invoice before hand and arrangments to have your visit are made . every year a assessor turns up and goes through your paperwork asks you the same questions and ticks the same boxes all this just incase you have become incompetant ! worrying that the industry feel that electricians who have taken so long passing exams should forget everything within a year and this is the con .... the industry has made it impossible to work with out being associated with a governing body for if you do the esc says your working illegally which is not the truth its only illegal if your not competant try and make that stand up ? in the real world especially now money which should make the world turn is not able as the sums of money demanded to be able to work to prove and to adhere to part are going up daily and therefore your cost and invoices go up to . and where is the electricians union ? oh they were removed. Just to say in al my time i have assessed sole traders and companies i have encountered work carried out by approved electrical contractors 8 out 10 times this work is some of the worst seeing that the larger the company the less time they have to undertake quality checks. there have been on a number of occassions where i have reported individuals and approved company's to the governing bodies that represent them only to be told that its nothing to do with them or they will look into it ( which they wont) just how many have been prosicuted in all no way enough!! these make the niceic no more than a toothless tiger A better set up and a fairer set up would be to allow a assessment to be taken every 3 to 5 years and a revision of their costings the implication of all the extra exams to be encountered on the way should be included into the trainning schemes and or reduced for the members Biggest worries for part p for me however are always the word competentence and regulationshow many effectivly know and actually undertake the calculations required to under take a job to ensure that the circuit has the right size cable the right lenght within the right temperatures and will perform as expected within the right zone and to the end of the job the test result how many know what they mean and what they can tell you about the installation ie does a zs correct reading mean that the cable is ok? etc its ok being able to do the job but what about the rest of it and there was never enough of this emphasised on a 2 week course in my eyes part p has managed to effectivly kill the trade by allowing the incompetent become competent and the overal charges imposed Now i work again for myself within the commercial and industry side to afraid to do domestic in case i see the frighting electrics of the past but even so would you believe it that in the industry's eye i am too incompetent to do domestic not because i am a ex assessor of part p or i have trained electricians taught them , undertaken nearly every exam concieved passed every assessment but purely because i am not registered as a part p opperative so many of you out there are doing a great job and really you should be rewarded by being given a break but there some who really consider a different trade

 

[russyb]

im new to testing and iv got the ECA assessing me on my first test i feel confident and i have just done the course could u give me any tips for what they look for apart from that im compotent many thanks

 

[hydeselec]

nice work

 

[reefagrim]

i started to write a really long winded ay to get through a asseesment but i decided that is not the best way to be helpful i can teach anyone how to test correctly and what the regulation reg with part p in a few hours but then i have been doing this for years .
no the best way is to let you do most of the work for you will remember it better
i will say when he arrives put the kettle on offer a drink and be welcoming do be nervous either stay calm and relaxed. you will as a first timer be subject to be critisized use this as a constructive rather than negative ok you did it wrong ask him why and how to make sure its not done again be aware of the regs the ability of the certification do you totally understand why your ticking the boxes what do the reading mean ? the information is within the regs , on site guide and guide notes part p itself has some information to the rear .
remember that its a assessment on part p and part p is a legal binding document the regs is not also to a member of the club ( eca , niceic napit etc ) they have their own criterias that you have to adhere to make sure these are explained to you
you need to take some time and read remember the figures see the equations use them they really do help
lastly the assessor even though he is there to assess you you are able to gather his knowledge ask him questions
if you want to know something specific let me know
i hope this helps

 

[johnboy6083]

Can i ask, are most of the assessors that you knew, actually behind the scheme, or are they just doing itbecause they are told to?

 

[russyb]

yes this is a big help many thanks

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I'm with ELECSA and have got my 17th but I certaintly didn't pay £200 odd quid for the course. I paid £80 quid for an "on-line course" then just paid the exam fee. Even so, I'd bet no experienced, compentant sparky could fail the exam even if they haven't taken the "17th course" By the time you add the course fee to loss of earnings it'll work out to cost you between £500 and £800 quid!

 

[huntos33]

looking at joining a scheme as soon as really, not got the 17th yet so may have to sort that out first as the op states you need your 17th, although the elecsa website says it is preferred but not a requirement, if I have read it right

I am awaiting my elecsa assesment on the 6th of june, not got my 17th course untill the 24th june, i think they will sign you off on the grounds you are booked on a course with the cert to follow

 

[trev]

Even so, I'd bet no experienced, compentant sparky could fail the exam even if they haven't taken the "17th course"

We have a pretty clever german shepherd, I reckon if I could teach him to read he could get through the 17th without any further training.

 

[joelea]

Don't won't to join a scheme, seems like a rip off to me, but in Cornwall the ****king council charge £172 for notifable works, every single notifiable job. Don't seem to have much choice. NICEIC or NAFIT, pick your thief

 

[trev]

Don't won't to join a scheme, seems like a rip off to me, but in Cornwall the ****king council charge £172 for notifable works, every single notifiable job. Don't seem to have much choice. NICEIC or NAFIT, pick your thief

South Tyneside have a sliding scale starting at £250 mate so 172 is a bargain. Still 2 notifiable jobs and your scam fee is covered

 

[trev]

Don't won't to join a scheme, seems like a rip off to me, but in Cornwall the ****king council charge £172 for notifable works, every single notifiable job. Don't seem to have much choice. NICEIC or NAFIT, pick your thief

By the way mate the F bomb is frowned upon in open forum

 

[joelea]

Someone told me that it starts at £22 in Southampton

 

[Dave 85]

You are an employers dream. You'll under cut any qualified spark, you'll do anything for a wage, you've also admitted that people who do these watered down courses are not the complete electrician! This is what the right wing/Tory elite have been trying to achieve for years......breaking the controls of employment the electricians and their union had and bring the "free market" into the fold! Safety will be compromised due to job pressures and so will quality of workmanship.

Hey man.... Don't knock the right wing/Tory elite they will be the saviours of this once glorious nation. It's you safety obsessed lefties/unionists with your criminal labour government who have F'd the country beyond all recognition....

 

[joelea]

Sorry for dropping the F bomb. It just annoys me. There does not seem to be away around forking out shed loads of dosh. From reading around forums it seems that the so called 'inspection' is often very brief and not worth the effort.

 

[joelea]

I have applied for NICEIC registration and now need to find 2 new circuits to put in to complete registration. I have only found one such job so far. Can't publicise myself as 'Registration Pending' so all I've got is word of mouth and all the jobs I'm getting from friends and friends of friends are minor works. Catch 22

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I have applied for NICEIC registration and now need to find 2 new circuits to put in to complete registration. I have only found one such job so far. Can't publicise myself as 'Registration Pending' so all I've got is word of mouth and all the jobs I'm getting from friends and friends of friends are minor works. Catch 22

You can usually use you own house for your 1st inspection

 

[joelea]

I'm renting

 

[joelea]

I could ask the landlady if I can put in some garden lights

 

[reefagrim]

I have applied for NICEIC registration and now need to find 2 new circuits to put in to complete registration. I have only found one such job so far. Can't publicise myself as 'Registration Pending' so all I've got is word of mouth and all the jobs I'm getting from friends and friends of friends are minor works. Catch 22

guess what i believe that you can take a hint and as such i would say " what your parents garage needs a extra socket done on a radial " obviously make sure the system that it actually connects to is suitable but you get the picture ....( there is nothing to say that the work done has to be paid for or cannot be done in a neighbours or family property so in effect you would be better to have 3 jobs one consumer unit one power and one lighting i expect they will choose the consumer unit first then the lighting !!!!

as for some of the other commets i have read i agree its a unfair system but unfortunatly its the way of the land if you want to work then choose the manner for your fleecing .. i still agree that the scheme has many advantages but its regularity i dont agree with a assessment 3 to 5 years would be better i cannot see the regulations changing that often however did you all see the mistakes in the first of the 17th edition hence why it was revised..

Recently i met a man who was of to a major organisation for a course on how to " be a electrician in england " in just 2 weeks he would be able to do your job best of all the answers would be provided by the training scheme after all there is such a major short fall of electricians in the country " thata because half of them are not electricians they are idiots who done a course and expect to become one in a very short time "

frightening but i dont worry when i sleep after all they didnt wire my house !!!

 

[joelea]

Thanks for the advice. I have put a new consumer unit in a friends house and will be putting one in to another friends house so hopefully 2 new consumer units will be enough for NICEIC.

 

[aprillove1719]

Hey you got it!!!! amazing.... thank you for giving as more knowledge about it...

yeah!!! two thumbs up :29:

- - - Updated - - -

 

[joelea]

Just sent off the paperwork to NICEIC to get my inspection for registration. As mentioned above I have fitted 2 new consumer units. Has anyone been through this 1st inspection process recently? What should I expect?

 

[tesla09]

good infomation
will come in handy

 

[old dog]

From the NICEIC website

The qualification is achieved following successful completion of all 14 modular components, each of which has either practical assessment units and/or multiple choice theory assessment units. The modular components cover the significant aspects of electrical installations practices associated with domestic premises and when completed will satisfy the competency requirements of the Government Approved Competent Persons Schemes.

The DISQ is a 5 day programme comprising of training and assessment, to meet all the needs of the competent person scheme



You may or may not agree with my comments, however I need to make these comments because I feel the Niceic is, and has bee,n destroying the domestic sector for the traditional spark



There is no critisism of yourself intended with my comments,because this course was hopefully intended for people with the on the job experience that you have but who lack qualification for domestic installs covered by part p building regs

There is no evidence of on the job experience or training required as a pre requisit for entry on to their course that I could find,so they just sign them on,charge a lot of money then sign them up


How do they possibly think that 5 days of training manages to give the theoretical and practical skills required before being let loose on the unsuspecting customer, wholly unprepared unskilled workers , with the endorsment of that deplorable organisation the Niceic the customer may be unknowingly re assured by registration with that contemptable lot

What takes many people years of hard work and study ,to then find that an organisation such as the Niceic promotes this sort of thing is pathetic and annoying

If I were a member of that shoddy outfit I would make it known to them that they are selling the trade of electrician down the river for a few bob in training fees




There got that off my chest

Good post I have been saying that for a long time.
It seems a case of using semi skilled DS to fill the void left by the lack of apprenticeships.
I came out my time 1978 I went back to college2oo7/8 done EAL domestic installer, ( part P )
17th edition and 2931 ,
No problem with Qualifications . However paying to prove I am competent. After being in the game over 30 years
Ok thats my rant over, for now

 

[joelea]

Hi Old Dog

I didn't do that course I did an NCS 18 month course. I got made redundant aged 49 and wanted to retrain as an electrician. There was no government support for someone my age doing this and no one providing the training locally so I did a home study course with 4 away weeks. I realise this does not make me as capable as someone who has done a 3 year apprenticeship but I've got to start somewhere and I am determined that I will not do anything that is beyond my capabilities. Electricity is just too dangerous to take risks with,

 

[Engineer54]

Hey man.... Don't knock the right wing/Tory elite they will be the saviours of this once glorious nation. It's you safety obsessed lefties/unionists with your criminal labour government who have F'd the country beyond all recognition....

It was f'D up long before Labour got in!! You must have completely or conveniently forgot about the 17 years of Maggie and Major!! The greed and criminality culture, can be directly linked to that era of time!!

And No, i'm not a Labour or any other UK party supporter....

 

[DurhamSparky]

Party time in the N.East when thatcher dies!!!

 

[trev]

A few other areas too Durham

 

[UNG]

Party time in the N.East when thatcher dies!!!

I think I'll have a bigger party when blair and brown turn their toes up

 

[Steve2381]

I've lost the will to live.... 11 pages later....

Did the 2382-12 17th edition in January, been sparking on and off since I left school.
Due to appalling lack of work in the NE, thought I would re-start the sparking. No wonder guys don't bother getting Part-P etc, its just not made easy is it.
Why not simply have a system... show your credentials, do a test... you are Part-P.
I don't want to join some third party fleecing association, I had enough of the Niceic the first time around.
Yet in the current climate, you can't afford to bang £100 on your price to cover the local building inspector to pop out.
Even after 11 pages, I am still no wiser. If I start up tomorrow, with my spanky 17th edition, I still need to register with say... Napit or someone.
Then, I am technically trading without Part-P, until they come out and inspect some of my work. However, I can't get the work... cause I am not Part-P.
And if I do get going.... am I then obliged to spank yet more money on the 2391?
Madness

 

[old dog]

Good luck to you mate , Yes we all have to start somewhere , When I left school I was one of the lucky one's .Nothing wrong with a late start . I am back at college now doing a computer maintenace course , two nights a week for a year . It wont make me a computer engineer. Sorry for the rant it just gets me going when someone tells me they are a Part P Electrician , Rant number 2 over

Hi Old Dog

I didn't do that course I did an NCS 18 month course. I got made redundant aged 49 and wanted to retrain as an electrician. There was no government support for someone my age doing this and no one providing the training locally so I did a home study course with 4 away weeks. I realise this does not make me as capable as someone who has done a 3 year apprenticeship but I've got to start somewhere and I am determined that I will not do anything that is beyond my capabilities. Electricity is just too dangerous to take risks with,

 

[joelea]

No problem, good luck with the computers

 

[rugbyspark]

Good luck with your Computer Maint course BUT depending on age you may find it hard to get work, I would check out Computer Forensics as a possibility if inclined.
After 20+yrs in IT (Hardware Support) I had to go back to sparking, that was also hard as no one wants an oldy even offering free work just to check my knowledge !.

 

[Tidy Max]

Cheers to Steve for the original post, the search function brought this thread up and it had most of the information i was after!

Just a quick one though haha,

what is the main difference between the 1 day, 3 day and 5 day part p courses?

Awaits 2-4days as an answer... brilliant.

Does the course have any form of exam? (i read that you do NOT get a cert and it is NOT a qual)

After just completing a 3day 17th course and immediately regretting the additional outlay as i should of clearly just gone for the one day i don't want to make the same mistake again!

 

[joelea]

Passed my first NICEIC inspection last week. Now to find some work.