Part P

[DurhamSparky]

Just to sum it up


Part P is a building Regulation that is statutory and which must be followed when carrying out electrical work in domestic property.

Part P is NOT a qualification and any body going around saying they are Part P qualified and have a certificate are talking Bull....!! You DO NOT need to do a 2 week VRQ course
Electrical Course | Part P Electricial Course like this one with a training scheme to register as a Competent Person.

YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT....!! this can be achieved by undertaking formal Electrical Quals at a college or by a training provider...!!

You do however need to know about the building Regs and Part P....!! you can download Approved Document P from the planning portal website.

The following schemes are the most popular with domestic sparks. Elecsa, Niceic and Napit. Upon registration with them you will be required to conduct a formal technical site assessment that will involve you changing or modifying the electrical set up drastically (Rewire/ Cu Change)

If you pass the assessment you are then freely allowed to carry out work in areas designated by building control that fall under the Part P umbrella http://www.partp.co.uk/downloads/public/CLGbuildingworkleaflet.pdf and any work that you carry out can be notified and signed off through them (the schemes) at a small cost (£2-4) and they will inform LABC for you.

If you decide not to register with a Part P scheme. be preared that notification of work to LABC can cost hundreds of pounds and drastically increase your price. They will also expect you to still carry out the tests and paperwork before they arrive to SIGN IT OFF


Recommended courses to do are:

A formal Technical Certificate that is achieved at Level 3 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e

C&G 2330 or BTEC Advanced/National Diploma.... This gives you the Underpinning Knowledge to build on. (achieved via college or distance learning 18months - 24months is time scale)

You will also Need 17th Edition Wiring Regulations C&G 2382 (if you dont have this you wont get any where in the trade.)

NVQ 3 2356 (its a Craft Certificate that although not needed is very desirable and normally achieved when doing an Apprenticeship but now freely available to "Bolt on" to your current Qualifications via distant learning.

C&G 2391 the ultimate qualification in the electrical world..! Inspection and Testing only to be achieved with considerable site and technical knowledge, closed book exam with a 30-40% pass rate.

C&G 2392 (lesser qualification of the 2391 and aimed at new sparks with little knowledge of inspection and testing, normally used as a starter course to grasp the fundamentals of what's required)

Signing off your work..!!!

you DO NOT need 2391 to sign of your work but you will be expected to have knowledge of inspection and testing to an achievable standard required to carry out and fill in the test results.
You also do not Need 2391 to carry out PIR's but should any thing happen and you go to court the 2391 certificate is your lifeline to prove competence in the field.



hope this helps...

comments and alterations welcome

 

[madmac]

The Daily Star have allowed an advert to appear all last week which is proclaiming to train anyone up to be a fully qualified 17th edition electrician in only 70 days!!!
The SJIB was approached and asked about this and they say they DON'T recognise it. PHEW! However they do say that the English JIB DO recognise it and not only that will issue a grade card on completion!!! I think this is the slippery slope for the industry as a whole, and don't expect mobs to worry as it can only be good for their profit margins by using monkeys and paying them peanuts!

 

[Daytona955]

I thought to be FULLY qualified you needed X amount of years experience after certain courses for the JIB ?

 

[johnboy6083]

big sigh! its gona be us on site, who have to train these so called qualified electricians how to do their job. and they will no doubt be on the same money. ive got no problems helping people out and showing them something they haven't done or seen before, as i still ask when needed, but surely this cant be right? domestic work is one thing, but if the JIB are giving these people cards and grading them, then we will start seeing them on industrial and commercial sites, where i beleive more experience is needed. Its one thing working under a supervisor all the time, but these people will be expected to be able to work unsupervised.


what do you lads think?

 

[madmac]

Thanks lads my sentiments exactly, by the way nobody including myself is trying to stop people getting on in the world with regards to better jobs BUT these training centres are exaggerating about qualifications and experience needed simply to get bums on seats and make profits!!! They couldn't give a ---- about the industry standards and the guys doing it are only getting conned! And the guys doing these short-fast track courses can get off their high horses about sparks being angry because if the shoe was on the other foot what would they do?.........open arms and welcome all on-board to steal their jobs?......I don't think so!!!

 

[Daytona955]

I dont mean to offend as im new here and dont want to go against the grain but i believe when the law changed that electricians had to self cert their work if they forced in the law there were so many practicing electricians ( very good ones who had been at it decades ) with no quals the country that if they didnt invent the 5 day fast track there wouldnt have been enough left to go around if they all got the boot. Maybe these days its being abused though but im certain new law is coming in july of this year although when i asked Napit they reckoned they hadnt heard of any. Oh and i emailed the JIB 2 days ago to see where i stand with them with what ive done so far...awaiting response. Think you may find the daily star course can make you an electrical improver which sounds good to a client but its someone in training as im sure you all know.

 

[mike2790]

alrite fella's, i'm a recently qualified electrician and am awaiting the delivery of my JIB card. i live in the isle of man at the minute and this is where i have served my time. i have the 17th edition and 2330 and am actively looking into doing my 2391 qualification. in a few weeks i am moving back home to liverpool and looking to go part time self employed until i can build up enough work to go full time self employed. im a bit stuck as how to go about it and wondered if any of you guys could suggest anything as any advice would be greatly appreciated. mainly i will be looking to pick up work on the domestic/commercial scene and will need to be registered with a part p scheme for the domestic side of things. yet to be part p registered under a scheme i need to provide evidence of work i have done to an investigator which would mean i will have done the work without part p registration. its a catch 22 situation whereby in this instance i will either have to work without part p or not work at all. or am i just being 'tim, nice but dim' about things. it seems to me that for all us sparks who want to do things the right way, theres a lot of hurdles, yet theres still monkeys out there wiring 32 ring circuits in black and red 1.5 t&e. any advice regarding the transition from cards-in to self-employed would be greatly appreciated too. looking forward to some replys.
cheers
michael

 

[toto]

I take it someone attendinga 70 day course wouldn't be able to self certify doemstic work on conmpleteition?!

 

[lauriehurman]

70 day course? - No, a 17 (yes seventeen) day course will get you 5 day introduction to being a "domestic installer", a 4 day introduction to Part P, 2382 and 2392.
You then have to apply to become a member of one of the schemes to self certify your work.

It seems to me that there are two things to say about the situation;
The above courses will cost you about £2000 plus accommodation. That's quite an investment and commitment by anyone.
and - in order to become a member of one of the schemes you have to be inspected. That means two examples of you installations and your office set up and bookkeeping. As Mike points out in order to do those two jobs you have to inform the local authority building control and pay for them to inspect your work to make it legal.

I think it's fair enough for experienced Sparkys to say if they think that the situation will have an effect on standards and safety. I am much less sympathetic to people who appear to just be complaining that a dilution of the workforce will lead to lower wages.

Laurie

 

[Daytona955]

Hey Mike. I found myself similar but have been lucky enough to find some work for the company i did the course on wiring up their new plumbing training centre . However you can do work in your own house if easier and be assessed there. All you need is a friend wanting 2 new circuits..ie downlights and a socket. I think its a test of you and your compidence more than what you just wired up mate.

 

[mike2790]

cheers daytona, the CU in my parents needs doing anyway so thats one of the jobs out the way, im sure i can find something else i can work my magic on around their place.

 

[Xtrojans]

hello all, quick thought on part p.
its a good growing thing and slowly embeding in our electrical way of life.
its costing me more in money and time and so called sparks who are not compling are genrally under cutting.
ive been very cheap and fair.

so as long as we try our best as proffessionals, we may lead part p for authorities to up hold and enforce.

 

[DurhamSparky]

doubt it..!

 

[Xtrojans]

lets start now, list these companies that do this practice on this forum.
Be fair and honest also the guys who don't comply with part p.
Check on companies house for all those dodgy builders you've had to go and sort out unregestered sparks.

 

[Phil]

lets start now, list these companies that do this practice on this forum.
Be fair and honest also the guys who don't comply with part p.
Check on companies house for all those dodgy builders you've had to go and sort out unregestered sparks.

lets Not name companies on an open forum.

 

[DurhamSparky]

companies house only list LTD companies!!!

 

[tazmantic]

Hi joined today and was going to ask about what courses I needed to do work on my own house but think Ill just read more tomorrow for the fear of being shot down in flames..... :0(

 

[HEC]

Hi Don't be frightened to ask questions, no matter how trivial they are. Every one has been in this position before, just some of us can't remember.

Re your question. Unless you are Part P registered you can only do certain things to your electrical system at home. They mainly come under Non-notifiable jobs, which to be frank is quite little.
You can relace your socket facias with like for like or you can replace your lights. you cannot alter or add a circuit.

You will find that there will be people on here that will shoot this reply down but in essence, what I have said is right.

If you have the competance you can do any job you wish as long as if its notifiable you pay your planning office and notify the job. they will inspect your certificate and test readings.

Hec

 

[electromonkey]

Great post DurhamSparky.

Something I have noticed here reading a load of these posts is that there is an assumption that because somebody has passed the required examinations and have been signed off by one of our assessment bodies (NICEIC, NAPIT etc) that they are able to get out there and start signing off work left right and centre.
Legally they can of course but there is a big difference between understanding how an electrical installation works and understanding building regs such as Part P and actually going in to people's homes and carrying out work. If you were to take a consumer unit change as an example, sometimes they are a nice straight forward simple jobs, other times they are a complete nightmare and require skill, knowledge, understanding but probably most of all, experience.
I can't help think that if someone isn't fully versed in the understanding of Part P, Certification and Notification then you fall short of what is required at dare I say it, a basic level and should in no way even attempt to carry out electrical work.

This isn't a personal attack on anyone here. I think it is a failure of the system more than anything.

My advice to anyone who has picked up qualifications but has had very little hands on work is to go and get yourself some experience first. You may feel you are getting under paid but I can assure you, it is a case of the short term loss for the long term gain.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Hi Don't be frightened to ask questions, no matter how trivial they are. Every one has been in this position before, just some of us can't remember.

Re your question. Unless you are Part P registered you can only do certain things to your electrical system at home. They mainly come under Non-notifiable jobs, which to be frank is quite little.
You can relace your socket facias with like for like or you can replace your lights. you cannot alter or add a circuit.

You will find that there will be people on here that will shoot this reply down but in essence, what I have said is right.

If you have the competance you can do any job you wish as long as if its notifiable you pay your planning office and notify the job. they will inspect your certificate and test readings.

Hec

I'm afraid what you have said is not right....Anyone can add to or alter an existing circuit within their home as long as it does not involve kitchens and bathrooms,or external wiring not fixed to the external fabric of the building.
In essence anyone can add sockets/lights to an existing circuit in their lounge,bedrooms,hallway,outside as long as attatched to the building etc ,with no requirements under part P.

Building Regulations - Part P FAQs - IET Electrical

 

[tazmantic]

Hi HEC thanks for the reply, so heres how I stand as Ive put in my newbe post Ive been a maintenance sparky for the last 20 years (including my 4 year apprenticeship) but this has mainly been in factories machine fault finding, single and 3 phase systems and instalations but Ive never done domestic apart from the odd socket change etc for family, but the time has come that Id like to get up to speed with the latest regs to do with houses etc. This is not so I can rush into house bashing cus Ill be the first to admit I have not got the experience I just want to further my knowledge and get some more qualifications and then go from there. I recently did a PAT testing course (paid for by me as company is too tight lol) and that was more for personal gain etc..


So thats it really just wonder what courses would be best? Im going to do the 17th for sure (my cost again) and just wondered if it was worth doing inspection and testing and also a part P course, I have read at the start of this post about part P certificates etc but as Im not sure of the latest building regs (and I dont mind admitting that) would it be worth doing, my original plan was to do a few courses, get some certificates and do work on my own house maybe even friends and do all the tests my self not needing to contact building regs but have since found out you need to join a competent person scheme and as Im not planning on running my own business am not planning on doing that..........

So any feedback would be good..........Thanks

 

[electromonkey]

Alright Tanzmantic, how's it going,

Considering your background, I'd give one of the registration bodies a call. You can speak to someone in relation to what qualifications you already have and they can advise you of any additional ones you may need before they agree to accept your membership application.
The NICEIC, NAPIT and ELECSA all run courses themselves so they may be able to help you in that department too.

 

[lauriehurman]

Great post DurhamSparky.electrical work.

My advice to anyone who has picked up qualifications but has had very little hands on work is to go and get yourself some experience first.

But can't you see what a nonsense that is?
I'm not making a personal attack either but saying don't gain experience until you've got experience is just not very sensible.
Sorry

 

[electromonkey]

Great post DurhamSparky.electrical work.

My advice to anyone who has picked up qualifications but has had very little hands on work is to go and get yourself some experience first.

But can't you see what a nonsense that is?
I'm not making a personal attack either but saying don't gain experience until you've got experience is just not very sensible.
Sorry

I think you have misinterpreted what I have said. I was trying to point out to that doing a handful of short intensive courses does not provide you with much needed experience. It gives you the qualifications and you come away from them with technical understanding but doesn't give you the grounding required in the practical sense. Qualification does not equal experience.

 

[tazmantic]

Hi electromonkey thanks for the reply and sounds like a good idea Ill have to give them a ring see what they say and as for experance your totally right only thing with that is (and its the boat I fear I will be in shortly) when it comes to applying for jobs either for personal reasons or redundancy most employers look at the bits of paper you have not the years you have been doing it.........Im sure if I applied for a job as well as some young guy with every piece of paper (but maybe no hands on experance) they would be more interested in him...........we recently had this exact situation where I work young guy with all the bits of paper but when it came to doing the job

I was lucky when I joined the guys in charge then looked further than paperwork but my problem now is as I can do the work the MDs dont want to send me on any courses as it costs money so thats why Im looking to do it at my own time and expense....sorry for the waffle lol

 

[lauriehurman]

<<<doing a handful of short intensive courses does not provide you with much needed experience. --- Qualification does not equal experience.

>>>>

Every body agrees with this. This is the point from which we all start. The question is - what to do about it?

How about we buddy up? Each person with the experience but without the Quals teams up with the person with the pieces of paper but no experience.
A year or two of self employed domestic work should give each one the chance to get their missing experience/qualifications.
I'd say a forum like this would be the perfect place to set something like that up.

Laurie

 

[jonesyc894]

So am I right in saying. If your competent and part of a scheme you can kick the part P to one side??

 

[malcolmsanford]

So am I right in saying. If your competent and part of a scheme you can kick the part P to one side??

No you still have to abide by Part P of the building regulations.

 

[tazmantic]

>>>>

Every body agrees with this. This is the point from which we all start. The question is - what to do about it?

How about we buddy up? Each person with the experience but without the Quals teams up with the person with the pieces of paper but no experience.
A year or two of self employed domestic work should give each one the chance to get their missing experience/qualifications.
I'd say a forum like this would be the perfect place to set something like that up.

Laurie

Count me in........So who wants to train this thicky and when can we start :0)

 

[pcuz]

Hey all
Ive just gone through this whole thread (11 pages) which has been an eye opener as I AM one of those Joe Bloggs, Mr No-Experience, Short course dudes!
I havent started it yet, or paid either (Im getting funding) but Im thinking I should direct the funding elsewhere as I was always skeptical about how 16 days would turn me into a qualified sparky. Unfortunately, being 41, options are running out and Id spent ages doing research before I finalised on Electrical training, so cock knows what I can do instead.
Incidentally, the training centre I spoke to totally gave me the impression that they were more interested in the money than anything else. When they discovered I was being funded, the greedy dog (I could hearing him slavvering, I swear it) even asked how much I was getting so that he could "extend" my training.
Plus, with no experience, by the sounds of things, Id really struggle with the training, though I was pencilled in to do a 5 day pre-part P foundation...But that means nada to me, it could be important or might be a shopping list.?!?
Thanks for all the posts. Really enlightening.

Paul

 

[DurhamSparky]

glad you took time to read the thread..!

 

[ruprecht]

I am an approverd electrician with the 2400 design erection and verification certificate, which is more than adequate to be part p registered,with one of the approved bodies.

Regards Rob

 

[02tsnowdon]

I going to become part of napit usually what work is acceptable to Show em as part of the assessment the minute I work for someone and can there insurance be used to cover the work I did. What qualifications and books are needed for all this, many thanks

 

[Spudnik]

Hi and welcome.

If you check the Napit website it will have all the info you need.

If anything isnt covered then you can ask the lads here.

They are a good bunch and they dont bite, as i keep them fed regularly.

 

[tony2010]

Hey pcuz, give it a go but choose the training company carefully. I'm 55 and starting out. I did the short course (4 weeks), one week basics, then Part p building regs, 17th Ed. and then 2382. It was a very good course and I met some great people, including experienced sparks (taking parts of the course) updating their quals. I have to agree, though at the end if you pass all the exams and assessments you may be certificated to start in the business, you are most certainly not capable (in most cases, mine included). Lucky for me, one of the experienced sparks took me on board and patiently let me work with him for a while. I've now passed my 2391, and we still work together on and off. If you are willing to learn and listen there is a route in via short courses.

 

[brav]

You can download them free from the IEE site.

where i cant see it on the site? cheers

 

[woofwoof]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post in here(be nice please) anyway I'm a plasterer looking to get out(sick of the mess) I have done some wiring moving sockets 1st fix wires 2nd fix etc only domestic side nowt to major.

What I'm looking for is what do i need to be able to do domestic work. I.E is it worth paying for part p or is it worth getting the 17th ED. I have been reading alot of the stuff on here and there is that many things iv got myself total lost. I know you guys get asked this question alot some if some could just go here read this or your need etc etc i would really like that if not il keep reading. I only need domestic side of sparks as my dad is a kitchen fitter and if i can past my own work iv got a job etc.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post in here(be nice please) anyway I'm a plasterer looking to get out(sick of the mess) I have done some wiring moving sockets 1st fix wires 2nd fix etc only domestic side nowt to major.

What I'm looking for is what do i need to be able to do domestic work. I.E is it worth paying for part p or is it worth getting the 17th ED. I have been reading alot of the stuff on here and there is that many things iv got myself total lost. I know you guys get asked this question alot some if some could just go here read this or your need etc etc i would really like that if not il keep reading. I only need domestic side of sparks as my dad is a kitchen fitter and if i can past my own work iv got a job etc.

If you speak to the NICEIC they will tell you the minimum requirement is 17edition and Part P (or DISQ) these courses will only prove you know the basics, being time served is the only true way of being an electrician.

Hope this helps

 

[woofwoof]

If you speak to the NICEIC they will tell you the minimum requirement is 17edition and Part P (or DISQ) these courses will only prove you know the basics, being time served is the only true way of being an electrician.

Hope this helps

Yes it does thank you very much for the fast reply i understand il never be a electrician and 4 years at college is not a choice i have at my age now. I just want a job i can enjoy and get paid for moving sockets in kitchens little rewire easy life for me.

 

[tony2010]

Good advice from Eliminator Guy (though he looks pretty frightening). You will need both of those qualifications plus you will need to be able to test your work so that you know that you are leaving it safe. You need to be able to put it in according to the regs and then confirm that it is connected properly and working and safe. Most of the courses provide all the qualifications, but then doing it without a safety net is something else. Best find someone with some experience to help you till you are confident and safe.

 

[woofwoof]

My m8 has been a sparky for 40 odd years so he is taking me under his wing for the next year but he is not up to date with test he just does work and his pal tests and passes it etc I dont know the crack there but works for him. I just want basics so i can pass and test my own work. I would never do anything i thought would hurt someone( i dont fancy going to jail or killing someone) moving sockets running cables etc nowt to much. i agree with everyone on here about ppl that just jump on part p and go yeah baby im a sparky etc ( same as me doing 4 years plastering and someone does 4days and tells me its the same) but they can plaster but they are not at the same level I'm If you understand my point. Just want to be safe and pass my own work with out doing 4 years or more at college and im not wanting a micky mouse ticket at the same time. I will always call a sparky if its past my skill level not chancing others or my own life.