Part P

[DurhamSparky]

Just to sum it up


Part P is a building Regulation that is statutory and which must be followed when carrying out electrical work in domestic property.

Part P is NOT a qualification and any body going around saying they are Part P qualified and have a certificate are talking Bull....!! You DO NOT need to do a 2 week VRQ course
Electrical Course | Part P Electricial Course like this one with a training scheme to register as a Competent Person.

YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT....!! this can be achieved by undertaking formal Electrical Quals at a college or by a training provider...!!

You do however need to know about the building Regs and Part P....!! you can download Approved Document P from the planning portal website.

The following schemes are the most popular with domestic sparks. Elecsa, Niceic and Napit. Upon registration with them you will be required to conduct a formal technical site assessment that will involve you changing or modifying the electrical set up drastically (Rewire/ Cu Change)

If you pass the assessment you are then freely allowed to carry out work in areas designated by building control that fall under the Part P umbrella http://www.partp.co.uk/downloads/public/CLGbuildingworkleaflet.pdf and any work that you carry out can be notified and signed off through them (the schemes) at a small cost (£2-4) and they will inform LABC for you.

If you decide not to register with a Part P scheme. be preared that notification of work to LABC can cost hundreds of pounds and drastically increase your price. They will also expect you to still carry out the tests and paperwork before they arrive to SIGN IT OFF


Recommended courses to do are:

A formal Technical Certificate that is achieved at Level 3 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e

C&G 2330 or BTEC Advanced/National Diploma.... This gives you the Underpinning Knowledge to build on. (achieved via college or distance learning 18months - 24months is time scale)

You will also Need 17th Edition Wiring Regulations C&G 2382 (if you dont have this you wont get any where in the trade.)

NVQ 3 2356 (its a Craft Certificate that although not needed is very desirable and normally achieved when doing an Apprenticeship but now freely available to "Bolt on" to your current Qualifications via distant learning.

C&G 2391 the ultimate qualification in the electrical world..! Inspection and Testing only to be achieved with considerable site and technical knowledge, closed book exam with a 30-40% pass rate.

C&G 2392 (lesser qualification of the 2391 and aimed at new sparks with little knowledge of inspection and testing, normally used as a starter course to grasp the fundamentals of what's required)

Signing off your work..!!!

you DO NOT need 2391 to sign of your work but you will be expected to have knowledge of inspection and testing to an achievable standard required to carry out and fill in the test results.
You also do not Need 2391 to carry out PIR's but should any thing happen and you go to court the 2391 certificate is your lifeline to prove competence in the field.



hope this helps...

comments and alterations welcome

 

[MiAmigo]

Afternoon all,

May as well make my second ever post!
Like Eliminator Guy above I re-trained and took a couple of courses. Mine were with Trade Skills 4U. I had worked in broadcast electronics since leaving school and have a HND in electronic engineering. I was made redundant about three years ago and discovered what people had been telling me for years- namely that when I get to 50 no one will want me.
So I decided to spend some of my redundancy pay on some re-training and TradeSkills 4U were fairly local in Crawley. Plus, since I had spent most of my adult life (and much of my childhood) thinking about amps, volts and ohms I didn't think the courses would be that difficult. In fact I found all the electrical theory a breeze- it was the rules and regs I wasn't prepared for. I did a basic electrical installation course which entailed a week being supervised by an experienced electrician and having to assemble various circuits on a board. All these circuits were tested for R1+R2, insualtion etc under DC conditions. There was no certificate for this course but I subsequently did an EAL Domestic Installers course (4385), C&G BS7671 and C&G level 2 testing and initial verification. Armed with these bits of paper I then put a small advert in our local paper for Minor Works, just to gain some experience. I had approached a few building firms locally to get some experience but they all had insufficient work to keep their regular Sparkys busy. I also found, somewhat depressingly, that my ad in the local attracted more calls from out of work Sparkys than business from clients. Anyway, undeterred I have accumulated about 20 Minor Works jobs and am in the process of applying for Elecsa membership. My aged aunty's house needs a new CU and some other minor work and i intend doing that and submitting it for the Elecsa inspection.

My experiences with the training organisations is that during the good times their main business comes from electrical contractors who send their trainees along for an intensive course. During recessions such as we have just had their main business is from people investing their redundancy pay. Virtually all the people doing the courses that I was on were all recently made redundant. A few dropped out after a few days on the basic course- they were so out of their depth. Others who mwere a bit more savvy stayed the disitance but I'm not sure how many woulkd actually go into the trade.
My ambition is to get the Elecsa acreditation and spend the last 15 years of my working life jobbing Domestic work.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

Great, if anyone else needs them here is the link.

http://www.----------/publishing/wiring-regulations/forms/formspdf6.cfm?type=pdf

 

[DurhamSparky]

good luck MIamigo!!

lifes crule but if you work hard you reap rewards.!!

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Don't bite my head off if I have missed a point Gents just joined today, as you can see from my first post I am in the trade.

Breathe deep..According to the London Borough of Redbridge Building Control, I still have to notify them of any work I do and have it signed off by the Building Inspector PRIOR to my application to register with a body, because I am qualified and am able to Verify, Inspect and test and fill the forms out to BS 7671 they will only charge me £75 Per Visit (Gee thanks) instead of £200 per visit, according to them it is illegal to do any work whether it is for the purpose of a registration or not, ONCE I have these two signed of examples of work I then present these for inspection by my chosen body to register for Part P...Is that a fair assessment of the procedure ?

ATB Steve B

 

[MiAmigo]

Don't bite my head off if I have missed a point Gents just joined today, as you can see from my first post I am in the trade.

Breathe deep..According to the London Borough of Redbridge Building Control, I still have to notify them of any work I do and have it signed off by the Building Inspector PRIOR to my application to register with a body, because I am qualified and am able to Verify, Inspect and test and fill the forms out to BS 7671 they will only charge me £75 Per Visit (Gee thanks) instead of £200 per visit, according to them it is illegal to do any work whether it is for the purpose of a registration or not, ONCE I have these two signed of examples of work I then present these for inspection by my chosen body to register for Part P...Is that a fair assessment of the procedure ?

ATB Steve B

That's correct Steve- though different councils seem to have different rules. When I contacted Elecsa they said that some councils don't require the building regs payment on a job that is going to be used for evaluation.Others are more strict. Not so with London Borough of Ealing where my aunty lives. They charged me £192.24 for building control notice on the basis of the work costing less than £500. They weren't interested in what exams I'd passed- only the fact that I wasn't an existing member of a recognised trade body. I believe that when you are accepted within the Elecsa enclave they charge £1.50 per building notice.

On the Tradeskills4U courses I did the trade bodies like Elecsa and NICEIC were referred to as "The Scam Clubs"!

 

[Mooresy]

Hi everybody

I was hoping to get some answers because i'll be honest some of the qualifications are confusing me. I am looking to retrain as I have a degree in computing and absolutely hate everything about it.

I understand that the first qualification i would need would be the Certificate in Electro Technical Technology level 2 and then level 3. Am I right in assuming that I need to be working in the field to be able to do level 3? What time scales does it take to gain these? I read earlier in the thread about 18months to 24 but does that one level or both? A college close to me does level 2 over 34 weeks, 1 day a week.

After that I believe i would need to look at getting 17th edition.

Am i right here or am I talking complete nonsense.
Thanks

 

[DurhamSparky]

any order you want!!! i suggest doing 17th as early as possible as its a good course for referencing your Level 2/3 work against as you will be using it every day!! if you learn the book the therory will follow!! then you put all that in to practice during level 3 (if you can) or when you finish level 3 and do the NVQ!

 

[Addlight]

I've found the route as clear as mud - and I suspect the colleges and 'oversight' bodies like to keep it that way!

I did 2330 L2/L3 in at evening classes over two years - it just seemed like five ... Then I crammed in 2382 via on-line learning packages, and found a college that would allow me just to sit the (PC-based) exam for about £60.

I then did 2391 in a 4-day course and found that more useful than 2330 and 2382 combined. Did the 2382 and 2391 in space of about 2 months after finishing 2330 L3 - having it all fresh in my mind helped, but the best way would be take you time and get lots of practical experience first.

Now the real learning begins ...

With your computer background you may find some of the college course way too long - but if they can make a course last two years instead of just one that's more dosh to the colleges...

 

[DurhamSparky]

i love your avatar!!

 

[Addlight]

Thanks!

It took a lot of work with our dog and my IR tester to get just the right result ...


Wife not best please though..

 

[Mooresy]

mmhm the college I am looking at would allow me to do both so guessing that will be the best option. To get the level 3 qualification do I need to be working with electrics or can still do that along side my current job?

Do you know also whether the college route or one of these intense courses are better?

Sorry for all the newbie questions
Thanks
Ian

 

[Addlight]

Wish I could help you on that question - when we started our 2330 L3 there was a rumour going around that the college shouldn't have allowed everyone on it, as a number of us weren't working in trade - including me.

I never found anything in balck and white on that - which is how it should be. The system should allow us a number of different ways in.

I'd recommend you do the L3 and start picking up as much experience as possible as you do it - offer your time to mates for free - there'll be guys on the course working in trade that may be able to get you in as labourer at weekend, etc.

I've been at it 3 years in September - doing the courses. Still doing the 'day job, but starting to pick up more and more part time paid work now I'm 'qualified', and aim to get NICEIC soon. From there, depends on how the work comes in ...

 

[mickie69]

I am an approved JIB electrician and have an NVQ level 3, the 2391 and my 17th edition.
Do i need to do a part P course or just be registered and have insurance to be able to do domestic work?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Nobody 'has' to any courses it's all about your knowledge and experience of applying 7671 and the paperwork that goes with it, if you have 2391 and are useing it on a frequent basis your assessments will be a breeze, pick a body and do the two assessments stil gonna cost you a few quid tho !

 

[mickie69]

Thanks Steve, is there a particular body that you would recommend?

 

[Bright Sparks]

Hmmm, I 'did' my 2391 about 4 years ago, I am pretty sure that the pass grade was more in the 70% area.

 

[coatesykid]

could someone please help, I took the part p on-line exam a week ago (failed had questions about roofing and bricklaying) I have downloaded the approved documents I just wondered if the "electricians guide to the building regs" was worth buying. Did it help U pass the exam?

 

[DurhamSparky]

never took a part p exam!!! load of tosh!

 

[MICK.BUDDY]

I am looking at would allow me to do both so guessing that will be the best option.

 

[Paul.M]

I am looking at would allow me to do both so guessing that will be the best option.

Do both? Please read the first page of this thread, he's not lying to you. Any questions afterwards are welcome. No need to do any exam, save your money.

 

[MAITLAND.JARED]

Another time I was asked to sort a fault in a tenants house, the RCD was tripping every now and again but quite often, so traced the fault to a leg crossing the landing, lifted the floor boards and spotted a dead mouse and a 2.5 cable with the insulation nibbled down to the conductors, exposing all three.

 

[Paul.M]

Another time I was asked to sort a fault in a tenants house, the RCD was tripping every now and again but quite often, so traced the fault to a leg crossing the landing, lifted the floor boards and spotted a dead mouse and a 2.5 cable with the insulation nibbled down to the conductors, exposing all three.

The mouse can't have done the part p exam or that wouldn't have happened

 

[mattmoo1974]

They hide your building regs Cert in part P(the only online part of the course).
I did this course because i had very little site experience.Aong side my 2330. Iv retrained after losing my job on the railway. First day i started i was told to do domestic work i needed 17th 2330 level 2 part P(aka building Regs). So it isnt a Qual and is. As faras im aware you ve got to have your building regs cert along with various Quals (2330)(17th)
I agree thaJoe blogs should nt be able to just do this and think he can do rewires,But in fairness its a nice taster if you were thinking of training to be a spark. And does teach you more things relevent to site work. As i say i did this along side my 2330 and because of that i found 2330 much easyer. Im not sticking up for dodgey part P sparkys.
But the course deffo was helpfull to me. Some people will choose to abuse the part P.

 

[HEC]

Hi
I am of the opinion that any course is better than no course. I am a domestic electrician for a numberof years and lecture at college on the subject. Over the years I have seen some horendous jobs from so called experienced sparkies. It is a bit like driving a car, the more we drive the more complacent we become and class ourselves as the best drivers because we are always doing it. Not so. I believe in refresher training and that we all should have it. Simply because we develope bad habits. I have seen this in real life and in numerous electrical jobs where a suposedly qualified sparky has undertaken previous installations. (The housholder usually uses the phrase, Eee well he said he was qualified or produces the installation certificate which includes a cooker circuit which has never ever been installed in the property) Mmmmm? seen it all. My opinion, any qualification is better than No qualification at all.
Cheers Hec

 

[toto]

Just registered and found this very helpful in understanding qualifications required and how part B fits in to the overal scheme of things.
As an unqualified electrician i do any non notifiable work on my own renovations and am 'currently' trying to understand electrics and this is helpful. Thanks

 

[madmac]

Part p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The industry is ******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DurhamSparky]

howay man language!!

 

[geordie]

Ok so from reading this I take it i am wasting my time and money doing | Electrical Training Course should just go ahead and do City & Guilds 2382 then do a couple of jobs give the niceic a lump of hard earned cash pass there assement and job done.

 

[nickblake]

you dont have to be nic you have elecsa and napit but start from the bottom and work up the more experiance the better spark you'll make

 

[DurhamSparky]

i suggest doing the courses is you want to get the feel for it!!

 

[tonys]

Ok so from reading this I take it i am wasting my time and money doing | Electrical Training Course should just go ahead and do City & Guilds 2382 then do a couple of jobs give the niceic a lump of hard earned cash pass there assement and job done.

Why not, because for the part p domestic installer status what ever scheme you wish to join, they won't question you on regulations, the inspectors are told not to.

Each scheme fully understand your money is good and and anyone of the schemes will snap you up, so they get in first and another punter in the bag "so to speak"

 

[geordie]

I am already halfway though the city & guilds 2330 level 2

 

[tonys]

I am already halfway though the city & guilds 2330 level 2

As far as it goes, you only need the 17th Edition to join a scheme for part p and unless get level 2330/3 with an NVQ3 your struggle to be recognized as a Qualified Electrician in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[lauriehurman]

Part P and the domestic installer.

Well in my opinion understanding the "system" required to be allowed to legally do domestic installations without being an employee of an electrical contractor is far more difficult than any electrical theory.

I understand - now - that Part P is a "procedure" and not a qualification. I understand that in order to be paid for doing electrical work in a domestic house I need C&G 2382 (17th wiring regs), and I need C&G 2392 (testing & inspection) in order to "supervise" my own work.

The commercial training organisations (who's adverts pay for this site) will "sell" me those qualifications in as little as 17 days. Are they exploiting me? Well only in the same way that I am exploiting the householder who isn't allowed to do DIY rewiring.

Where the training organisations are being cagey is that they don't advertise the fact that this is just the first step in a longer process. If I understand it correctly I have to be a member of one of the (five?) trade organisations in order for my work to be legal just on my say-so. In order to join one of these organisations I have to have two jobs which they can inspect. I'm not yet clear how I do those two jobs and what their legal status is but the local authority building control seems to come into it (i'm sure I shall find out if I keep working at it).

From my time reading this site and finding out this information there seems to be resentment from those who have been in the trade from the days when you sat in college for years and learned everything about electrical services. That's understandable, but I can also see it from the other side of the fence. The householder used to have to pay the wages of someone who was qualified to fit out a factory from scratch. Now they have to pay the wages of someone who has learned to do domestic installations. From the point of view of the customer that's a fairer system, they are paying for what they want not what they were forced to have in the past.

Times are hard and there are a lot of people reading this who are looking for a way to get back into paid work. Many people like me who are too old to be offered an apprenticeship or training position. We are on the scrapheap. We have a choice; we can watch daytime TV and live on benefits or we can fight back. Domestic installation is a possible future for us. Of course "proper" qualified electricians resent us taking food out of their mouths, who wouldn't? I think that it's no different to the hordes of immigrants who own nothing but a rice bowl and who see our two cars and a flat screen TV and want to come here and share our future. Can you blame them? Would you do the same in their position? I would. In fact I am. If self-employment is the only employment I can get then so be it, I'll become a domestic installer.

Sorry, this started out as a question about the next step after the training schemes and turned into a philosophical daydream.
Laurie

 

[madmac]

You are an employers dream. You'll under cut any qualified spark, you'll do anything for a wage, you've also admitted that people who do these watered down courses are not the complete electrician! This is what the right wing/Tory elite have been trying to achieve for years......breaking the controls of employment the electricians and their union had and bring the "free market" into the fold! Safety will be compromised due to job pressures and so will quality of workmanship.

 

[Daytona955]

Hmm seems im not the only one retraining and confused. Done c&g 2330 level 2&3 , taking a part P exam monday which looks a nightmare not worth doing, and 17th in a months time. Phoned Napit, i have to take the 17th and the 2391 within 12 months of joining them. No mention of needing any part P, just going to do it cos it was thrown in free and all certs look good i guess. Anyway ive found something online that looks to me like you can sit at home and take the test online Part P - Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings | learn17thedition, Information resource website and Exam Practice Trainer . If thats the case sat there with your book open why am i reading about every bit of building legislation going to sit an exam monday :/ And its only 69 quid!

 

[mattmoo1974]

Ah the never ending Part P saga lol
PART P HAS THE BUILDING REGS BUILT INTO IT. This is a qualification. Part P Shows Joe bloggs where to route cables,depth,Basic cable cals,What Mcb's etc etc to use.And not wanting to take it away from the ppl who have done there Apprenticeship/NVQ 3. The Ppl that just do part p 17th and a test course of some kind. Will come unstuck when they get a problem. Because your full blown Spark has had all that extra training(How an RCD works/why etc etc) they will be called in. I can see why the full sparks get on 1 about these short courses. But you are nt just stuck on Domestic you have the Commercial and industrial field as well. Mr Short course is nt gunna start dicking around with 3 phase(Unless hes brainless). Also can you see Mr short Course passing 2391 within a year after doing a Part P course and the regs? Think Napit are playing a very clever card there lol. What happens if you dont pass? Are all your Certs invalid? I am an old fart now (37) im never going to get an apprenticeship not that there are any out there! Iv retrained 2330 lvl2/3 17th Part P and 2391 cant ever see i ll be able to get my NVQ the way things are. so im stuff doing domestic by the looks of it. I hope i wont get classed as a short course wonder

 

[Daytona955]

To be honest i dont know how people manage on a 5 day course. Ive been studying this stuff for a year now and ive struggled even coming from an engineering background, and thats just to learn the basics. I knew if i went for a 5 day thing and i had a client ask a weird question id never have been able to give a professional and tecnical answer and just looked a plonker. I guess some guys learn as a mate or something before doing the real short course. Im 41 and have learnt as much in a year part time as i did as an apprentice at 16 - 20 because ive wanted to. Im a realist and know this is going to take time and am going to start up part time around main job to see where it all goes. But i do think these courses ought to come with a warning, i saw so many pay so much just to fail badly. Plus i think theres a change in the law coming up this year that ends the 5 day course as it will demand a level 3 qual if not already in a registered organisation. Thats what ive seen on forums but noone seems to know ... think you will need the nvq3 which im hoping to fill out self employed. Some say the level 3 2330 will do. Dunno but get in with Napit or someone now may be wise.

 

[mattmoo1974]

I did Part P along side my 2330 level 2, So i was clued up with it it all. They must ram building regs down for throat for 5 days solid is all i can say.
Iv passed my 2330 lvl2,17th regs, 2391. Doing lvl3
I failed my online regs twice(Part P). I dont mind admitting it :S

 

[Daytona955]

Ive been complacent mate. Thought i didnt need to learn much for the part P. Ooohhh i was so wrong. Thought when level 3 was over all would be simple. Now im banging away at mock online tests . Mindu who the hell makes up things like depth of channeling, size of hole in joist, 1200mm to top of switch etc? Id like that job !