No Earth in light circuit

[midiman]

Hi,

I have an looking to replace some plastic surface switches and I have noticed that there is no earth wire.

So I don't think I am going to be able to any metal fixings.

What are my options.

1. Just leave it as it is.
2. Look to get the circuit re-wired.

Thanks

 

[MJPD29]

If there is no earth class 2 must be used and preferably have the small white caps over the screws, otherwise to use class 1 you'd be looking at getting an earth into the circuit. Of course making sure it is RCD protected also

 

[midiman]

If there is no earth class 2 must be used and preferably have the small white caps over the screws, otherwise to use class 1 you'd be looking at getting an earth into the circuit. Of course making sure it is RCD protected also

Hi Matthew,

It's a 1950's property and the wiring and fittings are probably the same in some of the rooms. This is in a hallway and there is noticeable earth conductor going coming through the back box.

All it has one of the switches is a red wire and two black ones.

The back box has an earth terminal but no earth and the switch plate has two uncapped metal screws. So I take it that it is not Class 2.

It's fused at the box with an old push button thing, but it doesn't look like a modern RCD flick switch type.

I suppose all I can do is replace the switch with a Class 2 fitting, or get the circuit replaced and connected to an RCD.

 

[suffolkspark]

The metal back boxes may have nylon type lugs for the front plate screws, if thats the case then they do actually do metal over plates that you mount on the front.... Not the prettiest but if you dont like your white switches and dont want a rewire its an option

 

[Charlie_]

house or bungalow?
Approx 15 years ago I had the same problem in a bungalow..
All was ok apart from no RCD and no lighting cpc..
I installed an RCD and a separate 1mm cpc for the lighting circuit..

 

[suffolkspark]

1mm cpc?

 

[midiman]

house or bungalow?
Approx 15 years ago I had the same problem in a bungalow..
All was ok apart from no RCD and no lighting cpc..
I installed an RCD and a separate 1mm cpc for the lighting circuit..

Hi,

It is a maisonette.

I could do that, but I am thinking about getting the property inspected and see what they recommend.

Maybe I could get a partial rewire done to bring it up to spec, or just go for a full re-wire. But that is going to cost ££££££.

Thanks

 

[Charlie_]

1mm cpc?

Yes, the homeowner had blown their budget on fancy light fittings and accessories and didn’t realize they all needed to be earthed..
was a quick and cost effective solution

 

[midiman]

The metal back boxes may have nylon type lugs for the front plate screws, if thats the case then they do actually do metal over plates that you mount on the front.... Not the prettiest but if you dont like your white switches and dont want a rewire its an option

Hi, the back boxes are the surface mounted plastic types. I would like to change them over to the metal ones and put in some flush metal switches. But this is not going to be possible after I inspected the wiring. I didn't think that I would come across anything like this but you live and learn. I want it to be safe and comply with the latest regs. So the only option I can think of is it get it rectified or leave it as it for the time being.

Thanks

 

[Charlie_]

Definitely go for an inspection, you will then be given a report with all observations, recommendations, etc

 

[midiman]

Definitely go for an inspection, you will then be given a report with all observations, recommendations, etc

Most of the wiring is run along the walls about the skirting in plastic conduit and I only think that the hallway and maybe the kitchen lights sockets are going through the walls. So I would be trying to get the best price possible if I was going for a re-wire.

Thanks

 

[PEG]

My folks property,was built in the 60's.and had no cpc to any fitting or switch.
An inspection showed they had all been clipped back at the sheath (t&e) some micro surgery later,saved the day.

I guess the original spark must have been a Christian fundamentalist...

 

[Spoon]

I installed an RCD and a separate 1mm cpc for the lighting circuit..

Don't the regs say something about if you have to run a separate earth it had to be 4mm.. or something like that??

 

[Dustydazzler]

Don't the regs say something about if you have to run a separate earth it had to be 4mm.. or something like that??

4mm if run outside of containment I believe ?

 

[Spoon]

4mm if run outside of containment I believe ?

Just found it..

2.5mm if protected, or 4.0mm if not.

543.1.1

 

[Squid]

Chrome Vinyl Wrap, sorted.......

 

[Andy78]

Hi,

I am thinking about getting the property inspected and see what they recommend.

This would be a very good idea.

 

[Charlie_]

Just found it..
View attachment 48998

2.5mm if protected, or 4.0mm if not.

543.1.1

Was that also the case under the old 16th?
The singles that I ran in were insulated and sheathed, as I needed to pick up some live feeds and also at that time it cost less than g/y singles

 

[Spoon]

Was that also the case under the old 16th?
The singles that I ran in were insulated and sheathed, as I needed to pick up some live feeds and also at that time it cost less than g/y singles

Not 100% sure about the 16th mate. I'm sure someone will be able to tell us.

 

[Andy78]

Not 100% sure about the 16th mate. I'm sure someone will be able to tell us.

Yes 543-01-01 was the same regarding minimum cable sizes in 16th amd 2 : 2004

 

[Charlie_]

Yes 543-01-01 was the same regarding minimum cable sizes in 16th amd 2 : 2004

Had a feeling it would be, the 16th was very earthy, equipotental/ simultaneous, sinks, windows, radiators - its a lot easier these days
Well I got around 543-01-01 by using insulated & sheathed singles..

 

[davesparks]

Had a feeling it would be, the 16th was very earthy, equipotental/ simultaneous, sinks, windows, radiators - its a lot easier these days
Well I got around 543-01-01 by using insulated & sheathed singles..

2.5mm is the minimum size if mechanical protection is provided so your 1mm cpc is non compliant even if you do allow the sheath as mechanical protection.

 

[Charlie_]

The type of cable I’m referring to is brown 1mm singles with integral earth

 

[Pete999]

house or bungalow?
Approx 15 years ago I had the same problem in a bungalow..
All was ok apart from no RCD and no lighting cpc..
I installed an RCD and a separate 1mm cpc for the lighting circuit..

How was the cpc installed?

 

[Charlie_]

How was the cpc installed?

Clipped direct and fished down the channels to each switch.
3 plate wiring so plenty of room down the capping

 

[Spoon]

Question people. When you install a 4mm earth, how do you go about connecting it to the light fittings? I thought it would be too big?

 

[Andy78]

Question people. When you install a 4mm earth, how do you go about connecting it to the light fittings? I thought it would be too big?

I don't, I just rewire.

 

[Pete999]

I don't, I just rewire.

Who connects the fittings up?

 

[Andy78]

Who connects the fittings up?

Sorry Pete, I wasn't very clear. I mean I don't install a 4mm cpc additional to the existing wiring, I just rewire with new cable incorporating a cpc. The former is an option I wouldn't consider.

 

[Risteard]

Was that also the case under the old 16th?
The singles that I ran in were insulated and sheathed, as I needed to pick up some live feeds and also at that time it cost less than g/y singles

Yes it was definitely a requirement of the 16th Edition.

 

[Charlie_]

I thought so.. that’ll be why we used to have to put silly 4mm earths between everything in a bathroom

 

[davesparks]

The type of cable I’m referring to is brown 1mm singles with integral earth

What did you use the brown core for?

 

[Charlie_]

They wanted an outside light on a sensor and also a smoke detector

 

[Risteard]

I thought so.. that’ll be why we used to have to put silly 4mm earths between everything in a bathroom

They were supplementary bonds - not earths.

 

[Charlie_]

They were supplementary bonds - not earths.

Yes I know but we still used 4mm earth to wire it up

 

[Pete999]

Sorry Pete, I wasn't very clear. I mean I don't install a 4mm cpc additional to the existing wiring, I just rewire with new cable incorporating a cpc. The former is an option I wouldn't consider.

Right I see