RCBO installtion in old MCU following EICR Report

[suffolkspark]

Still unsure. Is OP the landlord or tenant of this property?


There has been suggestions on how rcbo’s can fit this board to satisfy some of it, but a non combustible cover for the board could be the sticky bit.

I read it as he's a landlord and going to be letting it.

Plastic front would only attract a C3, and thats only if its in the sole means of escape

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Good shout, so if they just get 6 rcbos to put everything on the left, pull the old rcd out to free up one more connection on that bar for that spd its all done

even better!

 

[littlespark]

Plastic front would only attract a C3, and thats only if its in the sole means of escape

i agree.... but OP has commented that plastic front is one of the reasons its unsatisfactory....


The whole report is a work of fiction, but if OP is adamant its going to be done, then a whole new non-combustible board, with spd and all that.... would be the answer.... its just going to have to be surface mounted. (OP isnt going to be living there anyway?)
Rather than spending time looking for compatible parts, long lead times.....

A reputable spark, a bit of board to cover the hole...a handful of WAGO's to extend the circuits and an all rcbo board with spd, off the shelf at whichever wholesaler is closest.... job could be done in a day.

 

[Deanp35]

Still unsure. Is OP the landlord or tenant of this property?


I don’t think reading the EICR is going to help…. They seem to have C2ed everything just to get an UNSATISFACTORY and force an awkward board change.

There has been suggestions on how rcbo’s can fit this board to satisfy some of it, but a non combustible cover for the board could be the sticky bit.


Fitting a new board on the surface is the only answer I can see…. That gives rcd protection where it’s needed, an SPD, non combustible materials…. Off the shelf components and straightforward. Only downside is the surface mounting.

Also, to clarify, you don’t need to use the same electrician that did the EICR to do the remedial work.

Although I did say it before, it’s unfair to suggest all electricians on mybuilder or whatever are unscrupulous… there are some good ones, I’m sure.
Word of mouth recommendations are possibly a better bet here. Are there any neighbours that have had work done recently that you could speak to for names?

Apologises, I am a landlord. I read somewhere that for landlords SPDs are mandatory on MCUs or on electric meters?

 

[Deanp35]

This one:

Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices

Buy Crabtree SBT2SPD3W 1 Surge Protection Devices online at Shop4 Electrical & get FREE Next Day UK Delivery when you order by 2pm & spend £60

shop4electrical.co.uk

Thanks. On that link it says its not suited for dual RCD boards like mine (or split load RCDs).

 

[westward10]

For your situation SPDs are not mandatory. Be interesting to see the EICR with personal details redacted.

 

[suffolkspark]

Thanks. On that link it says its not suited for dual RCD boards like mine (or split load RCDs).

Yours isnt a dual rcd board.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Thanks. On that link it says its not suited for dual RCD boards like mine (or split load RCDs).

Yours is split load with single RCD and the best mod as proposed by @suffolkspark would remove that effectively turning it into a Mainswitch only type board so that SPD would be fine.

 

[Deanp35]

Thanks. Had another opinion on this and whilst the RCBO option he said is doable , effectively we are altering an existing installation so it needs to comply with latest legislation so it needs new board that is metal and SPD . This applies to new installation and amendments and alterations to existing installation such as adding RCBOs to older boards he said as that is what the latest BS7671 reg says I have been advised

 

[suffolkspark]

Thanks. Had another opinion on this and whilst the RCBO option he said is doable , effectively we are altering an existing installation so it needs to comply with latest legislation so it needs new board that is metal and SPD . This applies to new installation and amendments and alterations to existing installation such as adding RCBOs to older boards he said as that is what the latest BS7671 reg says I have been advised

Incorrect.

 

[Deanp35]

Attached from BS 7671:2018.

"The regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installation, also additions and alterations to existing installations".

Adding RCBOs is an addition and/or alteration to an existing installation the way I understand this so it would need to comply with BS7671:2018 rather than the original standard at the time of the installation 20 years ago when my MCU was installed. I guess that why these electricans won't touch RCBOs in plastic units and advising new consumer units but I could be wrong.

 

[DPG]

Attached from BS 7671:2018.

"The regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installation, also additions and alterations to existing installations".

Adding RCBOs is an addition and/or alteration to an existing installation the way I understand this so it would need to comply with BS7671:2018 rather than the original standard at the time of the installation 20 years ago when my MCU was installed. I guess that why these electricans won't touch RCBOs in plastic units and advising new consumer units but I could be wrong.

If what you say was true then it would mean nobody could ever add an RCBO to a plastic consumer unit!

You have had good advice on this forum.

 

[littlespark]

Does changing an mcb to an RCBO come under “like for like” replacement or maintenance” or is it too much of a job and becomes “an alteration or addition”?

You’re adding a protection method… much like changing a standard switch fuse to one with an rcd built in.
It is no less safe than it was before. (Not safer, just no less safe)

 

[Deanp35]

If what you say was true then it would mean nobody could ever add an RCBO to a plastic consumer unit!

You have had good advice on this forum.

Thanks. Yes thats what I thought as well about RCBOs. Problem is finding someone who will do this. I mean yesterday the guy told me one way is to have a metal enclosure around the front consumer unit to get around the plastic issue otherwise its a C2. I am aware some are selling bespoke metal cabinets for MCUs but is it necessary? I don't think it is as we know. Idally there should be a place where people can source electricans who can do this job. Nearly everyone just wants the bigger job of changing the whole fusebox.

 

[westward10]

I know Wylex did retrofit metal covers and being part of the same group Crabtree may well do. I have no idea if this will fit but it maybe worth asking the question.

Crabtree 512/FLA Starbreaker 12 Module Consumer Unit Flush Lid Kit

FREE Delivery (£150+) - Buy the Crabtree 512/FLA for just £43.19 and view our range of Starbreaker Accessories online today!

www.electricalcounter.co.uk

 

[westward10]

I have just emailed Electrium to see if retrofit covers are available because the electrician who claimed to have spoken to them is incorrect to say they said RCBOs, busbars etc.... are not available.

 

[Deanp35]

I have just emailed Electrium to see if retrofit covers are available because the electrician who claimed to have spoken to them is incorrect to say they said RCBOs, busbars etc.... are not available.

I did this too before. Karen Sambrook is the only technical engineer who responds to emails at the moment from Electrium and she was the one who said no RCBOS and busbars are available for my unit.

 

[Deanp35]

I know Wylex did retrofit metal covers and being part of the same group Crabtree may well do. I have no idea if this will fit but it maybe worth asking the question.

Crabtree 512/FLA Starbreaker 12 Module Consumer Unit Flush Lid Kit

FREE Delivery (£150+) - Buy the Crabtree 512/FLA for just £43.19 and view our range of Starbreaker Accessories online today!

www.electricalcounter.co.uk

My unit measures 365mm by 220mm sitting inside a flush mounting kit in the wall measuring 390mm by 255mm. None available for my unit.

 

[mainline]

My unit measures 365mm by 220mm sitting inside a flush mounting kit in the wall measuring 390mm by 255mm. None available for my unit.

Me personally would just fit a fusebox d/p rcbo, spd consumer unit whether it be flush or not and have done with it, especially being as it's going to be rented.

 

[Deanp35]

Me personally would just fit a fusebox d/p rcbo, spd consumer unit whether it be flush or not and have done with it, especially being as it's going to be rented.

It appears this is the only option I have. Attached image of the inside of my fusebox the last electrican took. He advised he would only install a MK fusebox because the incoming two grey tails are on the left and MK ones are also on the left and moving them to the right to install other brands like Fusebox where the main switch is on the right would be a difficult job to extend the tails over. On the back of the front lid cover it said part number 61418.


(

 

[littlespark]

I hope he puts a bit of grommet strip around those holes in the back.

 

[mainline]

It appears this is the only option I have. Attached image of the inside of my fusebox the last electrican took. He advised he would only install a MK fusebox because the incoming two grey tails are on the left and MK ones are also on the left and moving them to the right to install other brands like Fusebox where the main switch is on the right would be a difficult job to extend the tails over. On the back of the front lid cover it said part number 61418.


View attachment 115965(

I wouldn't think extending the tails would be too difficult.

Is there a chance of renewing the tails or add an isolator ?

 

[James]

If it were my house, i would be tempted to make some accurate measurements and send the sketch of the new front panel to a waterjet/laser cutting company and have a replacement front cover made out of polished stainless steel with all the idents etched into it.
Last time i had something like that made for me it came under the £50 minimum order value.

 

[Deanp35]

If it were my house, i would be tempted to make some accurate measurements and send the sketch of the new front panel to a waterjet/laser cutting company and have a replacement front cover made out of polished stainless steel with all the idents etched into it.
Last time i had something like that made for me it came under the £50 minimum order value.

Thanks. Do you know the name of the company that does this?

 

[James]

last one i did, i used a company called aquajet in coventry. but there are loads of people doing that sort of thing

 

[Simon47]

I don't see why any new CU (as long as the lid isn't part of the sides) couldn't ne flush mounted. It might need a bit of work, but mounting methods that come to mind include :
If it's a close fit, screws from the inside through the sides or top/bottom into the wall.
Screws through the back, may need to pack out.
A couple of bits of angle at sides or top/bottom fixrd to case then screw through that into face of wall. For bonus points, do all 4 sides and neatly mitre the corners.
So, what's the reason the CU can't be replaced and still be flush mounted ?

 

[Simon47]

If it were my house, i would be tempted to make some accurate measurements and send the sketch of the new front panel to a waterjet/laser cutting company and have a replacement front cover made out of polished stainless steel with all the idents etched into it.

Hmm, nice. But being pedantic, it's no longer a type approved CU. We all know not having the maker's name stuck on the front makes s.f.a. difference - but that's the regs as written.

 

[James]

Hmm, nice. But being pedantic, it's no longer a type approved CU. We all know not having the maker's name stuck on the front makes s.f.a. difference - but that's the regs as written.

I think that is up to whoever is fitting it.
Can’t say it’s the right solution, can’t say it’s wrong. Just an option to consider.

However, we all know it would be great and last longer than the mcb’s behind it.

 

[mainline]

I would have did it by now with a new cu for a few hundred quid.
Wasted more than that in time Thinking about it

 

[westward10]

Just had it confirmed by Crabtree, yes replacement covers are available for flush fitted consumer units.

 

[davesparks]

Apologises, I am a landlord. I read somewhere that for landlords SPDs are mandatory on MCUs or on electric meters?

The wiring regulations are exactly the same for everyone.

 

[mainline]

The wiring regulations are exactly the same for everyone.

There are differences for landlords, etc so not the same for everyone.

 

[littlespark]

The wiring regs are the same, but building and fire regs may be different

 

[mainline]

The wiring regs are the same, but building and fire regs may be different

bs7671 standards are different for higher risk properties, therefore the regs are different.

 

[littlespark]

I’ve started another thread about differences in regs for rental properties here

 

[westward10]

As above can we move it to here, I'm not moving them all.

Differences in regs for rental property?

Further to discussion on another thread about whether BS7671 regs are different for rented properties. I say no. Building regs and fire regs are different…. But not wiring regs. There are differences in the wiring regs between domestic properties and non- domestic though.

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[Deanp35]

Just had it confirmed by Crabtree, yes replacement covers are available for flush fitted consumer units.

Thanks. Do you have the link or product code?

 

[westward10]

Thanks. Do you have the link or product code?

No contact them with a picture or part number if you have it.

 

[Deanp35]

Attached images showing side by side a newer compact RCBO against the old MCBs in my current MCU. The new RCBOs are bigger in size dimensionally although some sides are same. The bigger size most likely would mean the front cover lid won't shut on existing MCU as there isn't much space in front. May have to find a front replacement lid from somewhere. Only problem is finding one which is 220mm in height which is proving to be challenging.

 

[westward10]

They stick out no more than the already fitted RCD.

 

[Deanp35]

Just had it confirmed by Crabtree, yes replacement covers are available for flush fitted consumer units.

Crabtree do not sell any lids or replacement parts for consumer units from mid 90s or early 2000's. This was confirmed by Karen from Crabtree. They do not do any RCBOs either. I did mention that some have been able to do this but the advise given back is that its likely that those who have put compact RCBOs in very old units, are likely to have done other modications which Crabtree can not comment on.