lighting supplied via 13A plug and scokets

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Discuss lighting supplied via 13A plug and scokets in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

J

James sparks

Hi All,

Come across some high level lighting that is supplied via 13A plug and sockets on trunking. It's wired in 1.5 singles with a 15A 3036 and each light has a 3A fuse in the plug. Although the protective device is over-rated, is the plug and socket arrangement acceptable? The sockets are not marked with their intended purpose (ie lighting only) but they are way out of reach so nothing else should get plugged in to them and there are only enough for the amount of lights there are.

Thanks for any suggestions
 
First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?
 
Paul.M said:
First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?
Click to expand...
No singles in PVC trunking, why?
 
James sparks said:
Hi All,

Come across some high level lighting that is supplied via 13A plug and sockets as above in trunking. PVC or metal?

It's wired in 1.5 singles with a 15A 3036 and each light has a 3A fuse in the plug. No problems so far

Although the protective device is over-rated, (no its not) is the plug and socket arrangement acceptable? Yes if labeled at each point

The sockets are not marked with their intended purpose (ie lighting only)as above but they are way out of reach so nothing else should get plugged in to them I'm assuming this is commercial/industrial so placing out of reach and there are only enough for the amount of lights there are. Current demand is ok.

Thanks for any suggestions
Click to expand...


I'm sure some one will pull me on at least one of my comments but my tin hat is thick lol
 
Paul.M said:
First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?
Click to expand...

Was this taught on a Electrical Trainee course I wonder or do you only know of mini trunking and not of larger non metallic trunking systems ?
 
BGB 521.10.1
Non-sheathed cables for fixed wiring shall be enclosed in conduit, ducting or trunking....

Non-sheathed cables are permitted if the cable trunking system provides at least the degree of protection IPXXD or IP4X, and if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action.
 
KAS1 said:
Was this taught on a Electrical Trainee course I wonder or do you only know of mini trunking and not of larger non metallic trunking systems ?
Click to expand...

521.10.1 Non-sheathed cables (singles with no CPC btw) are permitted if the cable trunking system provides at least the degree or protection IP4X or IPXXD , or if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action.


The OP has not stated the nature of the trunking within this installation that he has come across, this is why I have said if it is PVC trunking you can not have singles without and outer sheath and a CPC, AKA mini trunking which I think it will be going from his post. Cant see dado trunking running up a high wall to the lights can you? It could well be matallic trunking but if is was he should have said and if it is I'm sure by the quantity of info given he would have said something along the lines of "singles in metal trunking."

Electrical Trainee pmsl :rofl: Last job I've just finished was installing a 55m run of 185mm 4 core to an 800A DB bigger than your bed lol. Yep I need to get my head around mini trunking, just remember that you cant put singles in it as above.
 
HandySparks said:
BGB 521.10.1
Non-sheathed cables for fixed wiring shall be enclosed in conduit, ducting or trunking....

Non-sheathed cables are permitted if the cable trunking system provides at least the degree of protection IPXXD or IP4X, and if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action.
Click to expand...


I was just typing that as you posted it lol...... at least people now know not to put singles in mini trunking pmsl.
 
"or if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action."


How would you define 'deliberate action'?

If the lid doesn't mysteriously fall off on its own accord, someone would have to 'deliberately' pull it off.
 
His post did not lead me to think of mini trunking I perhaps wrongly assumed it was metal trunking with metal clad sockets !!!!!!!
 
i can't see the problem with mini trunking. it performs the same function as larger stuff, but smaller.
 
and it provides at least the same mechanical protection as the sheathing on T/E.
 
Paul.M said:
I was just typing that as you posted it lol...... at least people now know not to put singles in mini trunking pmsl.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put that interpretation on it. If properly installed I don't see why singles in mini trunking shouldn't comply. If there are no gaps above 1mm and the covers are snapped on properly, you won't get inside without a 'deliberate action'.
 
I think someone is getting confused, thinking that if the trunking is non-metallic then each circuit has to have a cpc ran in following the same route of the line conducts and to achieve this they are interpreting it to mean within the same cable and also that the mini trunking is not installed correctly ie continuous, fixed and with it's lid on............ so it's not affording any protection for singles........
 
Seen as the OP has not come back with more info and that a debate has now sated I'll ask a question.


Q. Is pvc mini trunking classed as mechanical protection therefore you can run singles without an outer sheath?
 
I appreciate the lights are at high level so it is unlikely that anything else will get plugged in, but it is still possible.
I would prefer to see a method of connection specific to lighting such as 5A or 15A plug and socket, or Klik (or similar) type rose connection.
Is there a reason why all the lights need to be individually fused?
 
Paul.M said:
Seen as the OP has not come back with more info and that a debate has now sated I'll ask a question.


Q. Is pvc mini trunking classed as mechanical protection therefore you can run singles without an outer sheath?
Click to expand...
IMO yes. Obviously it should offer protection along the full length the same as any other trunking or conduit system.
 
Adam W said:
IMO yes. Obviously it should offer protection along the full length the same as any other trunking or conduit system.
Click to expand...

I believe it gives mechanical protection as well but the regs say different.

If we fix a bit of banding over the top of the lid so it cant be accidentally removed, is it then classed as ok to use???
 
HandySparks said:
You can't remove the covers off properly fitted mini trunking without a deliberate action anyway.
Click to expand...

Deliberate action yes but how many times have we seen mini trunking lids knocked off and not put back on. I agree.....



Anyway lads, I've just been stirring it up a bit lol. I'm now off to spur from my shower circuit to my garage using some old 0.75 flex and controlled by the pullcord! Put it on a plug top and its no longer fixed wired so cant go against the regs pmsl.
 
How many times have you seen Metal Trunking with the lids removed and cables hanging eh?
Look lets nip it now shall we as long as PVC trunking is: sized correctly, used in the correct conditions, meets with all the IP restaints correct accessories used and is a complete installation, nothing to stop you using single conductors
 
We have more than a few area's where we have high and low bay lighting, those fittings are also supplied by via trunking incorporating plug and socket arrangements. Our Installations are purely for ease of future maintenance and/or replacement/removal. We don't use fuse protected outlets (UK 13A style) but even if we did, the fuse is there to protect the connecting flexible cable, NOT the light fitting. ....And Yes, all was installed in metal containment systems...lol!!

This method of providing power to light fittings was standard practice at all the companies factories that i did my training with, both high level and under the lines, the latter using non standard pin 13A socket outlets.... In fact when i come to think about it, literally everything was on plug and socket of one type or another, limit switches, motors, traveling pick-up/collectors on overhead bus systems to name but a few!! lol!!
 
This reminds me of an incident early on in my career,I knew the manager of a warehouse and they were having the racking redone and none of the lights were in the right place.Anyway the MD had a quote of about 15k to rewire the whole set up,I went in with a price of 2.5 k to relocate the fittings,the MD was a bit peed off that I,d quoted lower than the other guy who was obviously some relation of his,so he had to give me the job but thought I'd misquoted,not a chance.All that was needed was replace the half metre of flex on each fitting with a metre and move them over.The other guy was talking two weeks and a warehouse shutdown,I did it over 5 evenings starting at 6pm working till 9pm,nice little earner that was,especially as they supplied the scissor lift.
 

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