lighting supplied via 13A plug and scokets

[James sparks]

Hi All,

Come across some high level lighting that is supplied via 13A plug and sockets on trunking. It's wired in 1.5 singles with a 15A 3036 and each light has a 3A fuse in the plug. Although the protective device is over-rated, is the plug and socket arrangement acceptable? The sockets are not marked with their intended purpose (ie lighting only) but they are way out of reach so nothing else should get plugged in to them and there are only enough for the amount of lights there are.

Thanks for any suggestions

 

[Paul.M]

First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?

 

[Brightspark2]

Yes that's acceptable, quite common too...

 

[Pete999]

First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?

No singles in PVC trunking, why?

 

[KAS1]

First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?

Please explain further ..........

 

[Paul.M]

Hi All,

Come across some high level lighting that is supplied via 13A plug and sockets as above in trunking. PVC or metal?

It's wired in 1.5 singles with a 15A 3036 and each light has a 3A fuse in the plug. No problems so far

Although the protective device is over-rated, (no its not) is the plug and socket arrangement acceptable? Yes if labeled at each point

The sockets are not marked with their intended purpose (ie lighting only)as above but they are way out of reach so nothing else should get plugged in to them I'm assuming this is commercial/industrial so placing out of reach and there are only enough for the amount of lights there are. Current demand is ok.

Thanks for any suggestions

I'm sure some one will pull me on at least one of my comments but my tin hat is thick lol

 

[Paul.M]

No singles in PVC trunking, why?

PVC trucking is NOT mechanical protection therefore any cables inside need to be double insulated and if in singles each single line conductor needs to have a cpc.

 

[KAS1]

PVC trucking is NOT mechanical protection therefore any cables inside need to be double insulated and if in singles each single line conductor needs to have a cpc.

Load of cobblers

 

[7029 dave]

Of course you can have singles in pvc trunking.

 

[Brightspark2]

It sounds like an existing circuit, I don't think it needs a label at every socket...it's at high level...let's use common sense...

 

[Pete999]

PVC trucking is NOT mechanical protection therefore any cables inside need to be double insulated and if in singles each single line conductor needs to have a cpc.

Codswollop

 

[KAS1]

Don't tell me you would wire everything in dado trunking in T&E lol

 

[7029 dave]

Its no different from having singles in pvc conduit.

 

[Pete999]

Don't tell me you would wire everything in dado trunking in T&E lol

Probably never heard so much ess h one tee in my my life

 

[Pete999]

Probably never heard so much ess h one tee in my my life

Not meant for you KASI

 

[Megavolt]

PVC trucking is NOT mechanical protection therefore any cables inside need to be double insulated and if in singles each single line conductor needs to have a cpc.

Now where have you get this from. Load of rubbish by the way

 

[KAS1]

First point is having single in trunking. If it is pvc trunking then thats a NO NO for a start, unless double insulated with each line conductor having a CPC?

Was this taught on a Electrical Trainee course I wonder or do you only know of mini trunking and not of larger non metallic trunking systems ?

 

[HandySparks]

BGB 521.10.1
Non-sheathed cables for fixed wiring shall be enclosed in conduit, ducting or trunking....

Non-sheathed cables are permitted if the cable trunking system provides at least the degree of protection IPXXD or IP4X, and if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action.

 

[Paul.M]

Was this taught on a Electrical Trainee course I wonder or do you only know of mini trunking and not of larger non metallic trunking systems ?

521.10.1 Non-sheathed cables (singles with no CPC btw) are permitted if the cable trunking system provides at least the degree or protection IP4X or IPXXD , or if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action.


The OP has not stated the nature of the trunking within this installation that he has come across, this is why I have said if it is PVC trunking you can not have singles without and outer sheath and a CPC, AKA mini trunking which I think it will be going from his post. Cant see dado trunking running up a high wall to the lights can you? It could well be matallic trunking but if is was he should have said and if it is I'm sure by the quantity of info given he would have said something along the lines of "singles in metal trunking."

Electrical Trainee pmsl :rofl: Last job I've just finished was installing a 55m run of 185mm 4 core to an 800A DB bigger than your bed lol. Yep I need to get my head around mini trunking, just remember that you cant put singles in it as above.

 

[Paul.M]

BGB 521.10.1
Non-sheathed cables for fixed wiring shall be enclosed in conduit, ducting or trunking....

Non-sheathed cables are permitted if the cable trunking system provides at least the degree of protection IPXXD or IP4X, and if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action.

I was just typing that as you posted it lol...... at least people now know not to put singles in mini trunking pmsl.

 

[Silly Sausage]

"or if the cover can only be removed by means of a tool or a deliberate action."


How would you define 'deliberate action'?

If the lid doesn't mysteriously fall off on its own accord, someone would have to 'deliberately' pull it off.

 

[Pete999]

I was just typing that as you posted it lol...... at least people now know not to put singles in mini trunking pmsl.

What do you class as mini trunking?

 

[KAS1]

His post did not lead me to think of mini trunking I perhaps wrongly assumed it was metal trunking with metal clad sockets !!!!!!!

 

[telectrix]

i can't see the problem with mini trunking. it performs the same function as larger stuff, but smaller.

 

[Pete999]

i can't see the problem with mini trunking. it performs the same function as larger stuff, but smaller.

Me neither

 

[KAS1]

I'll third that

 

[telectrix]

and it provides at least the same mechanical protection as the sheathing on T/E.

 

[HandySparks]

I was just typing that as you posted it lol...... at least people now know not to put singles in mini trunking pmsl.

I wouldn't put that interpretation on it. If properly installed I don't see why singles in mini trunking shouldn't comply. If there are no gaps above 1mm and the covers are snapped on properly, you won't get inside without a 'deliberate action'.

 

[Pete999]

I'll 4th that lol

 

[KAS1]

I think someone is getting confused, thinking that if the trunking is non-metallic then each circuit has to have a cpc ran in following the same route of the line conducts and to achieve this they are interpreting it to mean within the same cable and also that the mini trunking is not installed correctly ie continuous, fixed and with it's lid on............ so it's not affording any protection for singles........

 

[Paul.M]

Seen as the OP has not come back with more info and that a debate has now sated I'll ask a question.


Q. Is pvc mini trunking classed as mechanical protection therefore you can run singles without an outer sheath?

 

[KAS1]

What colour ????

 

[Adam W]

I appreciate the lights are at high level so it is unlikely that anything else will get plugged in, but it is still possible.
I would prefer to see a method of connection specific to lighting such as 5A or 15A plug and socket, or Klik (or similar) type rose connection.
Is there a reason why all the lights need to be individually fused?

 

[7029 dave]

and it provides at least the same mechanical protection as the sheathing on T/E.

Yes no difference, as having t&e clipped direct.

 

[Adam W]

Seen as the OP has not come back with more info and that a debate has now sated I'll ask a question.


Q. Is pvc mini trunking classed as mechanical protection therefore you can run singles without an outer sheath?

IMO yes. Obviously it should offer protection along the full length the same as any other trunking or conduit system.

 

[Paul.M]

What colour ????

I like Black mini trunking, very pleasing on the eyes and dose not stick out like a saw thumb. Dose the colour affect the cable grouping? I'll have to check my Electrical Trainee booklet lol.

 

[Paul.M]

IMO yes. Obviously it should offer protection along the full length the same as any other trunking or conduit system.

I believe it gives mechanical protection as well but the regs say different.

If we fix a bit of banding over the top of the lid so it cant be accidentally removed, is it then classed as ok to use???

 

[HandySparks]

I believe it gives mechanical protection as well but the regs say different.

Where do the regs say this?

If we fix a bit of banding over the top of the lid so it cant be accidentally removed, is it then classed as ok to use???

You can't remove the covers off properly fitted mini trunking without a deliberate action anyway.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

PVC trucking is NOT mechanical protection therefore any cables inside need to be double insulated and if in singles each single line conductor needs to have a cpc.

paul mate...

dont confuse trunking with capping/channel which certainly isn`t considered as mechanical protection...

 

[Paul.M]

You can't remove the covers off properly fitted mini trunking without a deliberate action anyway.

Deliberate action yes but how many times have we seen mini trunking lids knocked off and not put back on. I agree.....



Anyway lads, I've just been stirring it up a bit lol. I'm now off to spur from my shower circuit to my garage using some old 0.75 flex and controlled by the pullcord! Put it on a plug top and its no longer fixed wired so cant go against the regs pmsl.