Best Way to Add a Light in the Loft

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

I've got a new build property and it looks like the electrician has left some wiring in the loft ready for a plug socket to be installed (2.5mm twin and earth cable). I'm assuming it's for a plug socket due to the cable size and that it's not wired into any of the lighting circuits (checked by switching off all the lighting circuits and the cable was still live according to my voltage pen).
What would be the best way to wire in a light? I've got some 1.0mm twin and earth cable which I'd like to use so my thought was this:
Install double socket off the current cable
Use the 1.0mm twin and earth to wire a pendant into a 3 pin plug with a 5amp fuse installed and plug it into the above.

Based on the above, would I be able to wire the plug into a junction box in order to feed 2 pendants? Thanks

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

Why not wire the lights into the lighting circuit that is already in your loft?

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Spoon said:
Why not wire the lights into the lighting circuit that is already in your loft?

There isn't one, just that cable

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

Are you saying the 2.5mm cable is live but not wired to anything?

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Spoon said:
Are you saying the 2.5mm cable is live but not wired to anything?

Correct

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

Firstly, standard 13Amp plug tops are not designed to accept twin and earth cable of the type you are describing.
The cable you describe as 2.5 mm2 cable, have you any idea where it is fed from?
Where are you in the East midlands? if it's not to far from me I may be able to offer some practical help.

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
There isn't one, just that cable

Are the cables for the lights in the rooms below the loft not in the loft? Where is this wiring? or am I missing something....

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
Correct

That is not good.
As @Pete999 asks, where is it fed from?

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
There isn't one, just that cable

I think what Spoon is saying is that your upstairs lighting could be accessed from your loft space, apologies to Spoon if I'm wrong.

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Spoon said:
Are the cables for the lights in the rooms below the loft not in the loft? Where is this wiring? or am I missing something....

They are but covered by the loft insulation and I didn't fancy taking it all up and taking a spur off it.

This spare wire is attached to a roof truss. (see attached photo).

I've got no idea exactly where this random live cable is fed from, only that it appears to be wired into the upstairs sockets.

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
They are but covered by the loft insulation and I didn't fancy taking it all up and taking a spur off it.

This spare wire is attached to a roof truss. (see attached photo).

I've got no idea exactly where this random live cable is fed from, only that it appears to be wired into the upstairs sockets.

View attachment 39490

Can't see the photo

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Pete999 said:
Can't see the photo

Should be there now, didn't like the google photos link

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

And just to clarify it all a bit further here's a very badly drawn diagram of what I planned to do from the current cable.

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
And just to clarify it all a bit further here's a very badly drawn diagram of what I planned to do from the current cable.

View attachment 39491

Pete999 said:
Firstly, standard 13Amp plug tops are not designed to accept twin and earth cable of the type you are describing.

OP: Why do you want to use twin and earth cable? As @Pete999 says, its not suitable for your idea.

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

IF the errant cable is a spur from the upstairs RFC then fit a FCU and wire your loft light from that, simples.

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Spoon said:
OP: Why do you want to use twin and earth cable? As @Pete999 says, its not suitable for your idea.

I had it leftover from some work I had done before and thought I could use it. What could I use instead?

Pete999 said:
IF the errant cable is a spur from the upstairs RFC then fit a FCU and wire your loft light from that, simples.

Sorry I should have made it clearer, the reason for wanting the plug socket was so that I could have somewhere to plug in in the loft at a later date.

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
Sorry I should have made it clearer, the reason for wanting the plug socket was so that I could have somewhere to plug in in the loft at a later date

If you are going to use the cable to add a 2 way socket outlet onto it, then you really need to find out where the cable is fed from. If its wired into an upstairs socket then find out which one and see how its wired up.

westward10 · Nov 28, 2017

A volt pen can show a dead cable to be live if it is in close proximity to cables which are live!

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

So, what's the consensus? get a sparky in to do the work?

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

westward10 said:
A volt pen can show a dead cable to be live if it is in close proximity to cables which are live!

I had switched the lighting circuits off at the mains before checking that cable and it was still live. Unless there is other socket wiring in the ceiling then I'd like to think it's accurate.

Spoon said:
If you are going to use the cable to add a 2 way socket outlet onto it, then you really need to find out where the cable is fed from. If its wired into an upstairs socket then find out which one and see how its wired up.

It looks like it's coming off one of the upstairs sockets judging by the direction of the cable but I've got no easy way of finding out as the insulation is in the way in the loft and the closest socket has got those stupid screw covers on so I can't easily get it off to check without destroying those (unless there's a nack to getting them out).

I've emailed the developer and hope they can provide me with the information.

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

I would demand from the developer, that he gets the idiot who left this live cable floating around in the loft, back ASAP and finish what he started, also check the EIC for the original installation, just realised it's new build.

NDG Elecs · Nov 28, 2017

Use flex to go into a plug. I gotta say I have never known loft insulation that is not movable!! Gloves and mask on, move, check, put back! Really simple mate..

westward10 · Nov 28, 2017

As Pete says get the developer in to sort it as a live cable, assuming it is should not have been left floating about.

Spoon · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
I've emailed the developer and hope they can provide me with the information.

Did you state you have a live cable in the loft, connected to nothing?

OK @Pete999 says it better than me in the post above..

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Pete999 said:
I would demand from the developer, that he gets the idiot who left this live cable floating around in the loft, back ASAP and finish what he started, also check the EIC for the original installation, just realised it's new build.

Are you saying it should't have been signed off if the cable has been left like that? What should I be looking for in the EIC?

Yes I stated that there is a live cable connected to nothing!

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
Are you saying it should't have been signed off if the cable has been left like that? What should I be looking for in the EIC?

Yes I stated that there is a live cable connected to nothing!

The person conducting the test is the one to blame as well, it's a dangerous occurrence in my book, in answer to your question the installation is not complete, not safe therefore should not have been signed off on. The omission of an accessory on the end of this cable is obviously an oversight by the installer, the EIC should have picked this oversight up.

westward10 · Nov 28, 2017

Any chance you can have a look in your neighbours loft to see if it is the same.

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

westward10 said:
Any chance you can have a look in your neighbours loft to see if it is the same.

Possibly, I'll have to see when they're home. If in the first instance though we're saying that cable should have been terminated in some shape or form then I'll raise it with them and get them to sort things out.

DPG · Nov 28, 2017

There is no doubt the cable should not have been left live and unterminated! Anyone reaching around in loft, especially with no proper lighting, could have touched it and received a shock.

As said above, the testing should have picked this up.

Octopus · Nov 28, 2017

I think a decent spark needs to visit site.

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Electricians should be out this week to advise and sort the above.

Considering my requirements, what would be the best way to get them to terminate the cable, assuming they've hooked into the socket on the landing?

If I get them to terminate into a 30amp junction box could I wire a socket off that from one side and the light via a FCU (as per attached)?

westward10 · Nov 28, 2017

If it is from a ring final circuit an fcu is required prior to the junction box but the rest is okay with a 5A fuse fitted at the lighting fcu.

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
Electricians should be out this week to advise and sort the above.

Considering my requirements, what would be the best way to get them to terminate the cable, assuming they've hooked into the socket on the landing?

If I get them to terminate into a 30amp junction box could I wire a socket off that from one side and the light via a FCU (as per attached)?

View attachment 39494

#6 no reply I'm out

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Pete999 said:
#6 no reply I'm out

Sorry it's the electricians from the builders as the house is under warranty so they'll be sorting something under that in the first instance. I am grateful for you offer but was hoping to be able to sort this myself.

I can see your in Northampton. I'm in North West Leicestershire so a fair trek for you!

Octopus · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
Electricians should be out this week to advise and sort the above.

Considering my requirements, what would be the best way to get them to terminate the cable, assuming they've hooked into the socket on the landing?

If I get them to terminate into a 30amp junction box could I wire a socket off that from one side and the light via a FCU (as per attached)?

View attachment 39494

That is an awful botch....... not the best way to do it.

Just let the spark do it properly. Tell them you need a light and a certificate...

Pete999 · Nov 28, 2017

am549 said:
Sorry it's the electricians from the builders as the house is under warranty so they'll be sorting something under that in the first instance. I am grateful for you offer but was hoping to be able to sort this myself.

I can see your in Northampton. I'm in North West Leicestershire so a fair trek for you!

Nice of you to let me know. I'm out now

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

Murdoch said:
That is an awful botch....... not the best way to do it.

Just let the spark do it properly. Tell them you need a light and a certificate...

I'll do that in the first instance to see if I can get a light and a double socket in there. As they'll be out under the developers warranty I'm not sure what will be within their remit to make it safe as I imagine it won't stretch to the above. What would be the best way to do it and how much should I be expecting to pay for it to be done correctly?

Pete999 said:
Nice of you to let me know. I'm out now

No probs. Sorry for not responding to your offer earlier.

westward10 · Nov 28, 2017

I thought this was a new build property.

Octopus · Nov 28, 2017

this is all a bit smelly!

am549 · Nov 28, 2017

westward10 said:
I thought this was a new build property.

It is. I don’t get the comment?

Murdoch said:
this is all a bit smelly!

Why so? Have I not been clear on anything somewhere?

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