J
John-SJW
New 0.5mm T&E cable and 2A mcb's avialble, as lighting loads are now so low because of LEDs
What about their E.
And 0.5mm taking 8 amps max current.
Yeah fair play on those two!
J
John-SJW
This reminds of a few years when I saw a lighting circuit in a one bedroom flat wired with 0.5mm flex, as all lights were LED. The guy got a reel super cheap or for nothing. He used a 2A MCB. A neat job. He said to wire up lighting switch backboxes it was super easy as only thin wires, and that 0.20 mm² to 4.0 mm² is what lever Wagos take. He use these in the backboxes.
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Third time I’ve seen this video posted on the forum today.
April fools finish at midday, guys
April fools finish at midday, guys
J
John-SJW
He only did the lighting circuit. It worked well and a neat job as well. I only saw the CU. It worked and was safe. He did his homework on safety, the max amps loading of the cable, etc. No way would the cable overload using LEDs and 2A MCB. I never saw any bodged DIY work in the house.Sounds like a nightmare house for whoever has it next
Now I'm really confused!!!
I just watched the video. It all makes perfect sense and sounds great. Then...... right at the end the guys mention April fools!!
Now I don't know what to think
I just watched the video. It all makes perfect sense and sounds great. Then...... right at the end the guys mention April fools!!
Now I don't know what to think
I know what the phrase April fools joke means. Y’all have an awesome weekend and I appreciate all of you.
I still don't know if it's real!
I'm not known for my common sense
Could someone please put me out of my misery
I'm not known for my common sense
Could someone please put me out of my misery
Wouldn't cost so much if you measured a run incorrectly.I still don't know if it's real!
I'm not known for my common sense
Could someone please put me out of my misery
J
John-SJW
I just did a search and 2A RCBOs are available as well.
Sometimes there is the seed of a good idea in a joke.
Sometimes there is the seed of a good idea in a joke.
J
John-SJW
They did a good job. Where did they get the 0.5mm T&E? It was obviously thinner than the 1.00mm cable.Now I'm really confused!!!
I just watched the video. It all makes perfect sense and sounds great. Then...... right at the end the guys mention April fools!!
Now I don't know what to think
The points is, is that 0.5mm and a 2A MCB or RCBO (which are available) would be perfectly safe using 0.5mm cable. The max current draw of 0.5mm is approx 3A. 50 LEDs consumes 150 watts. So well within safety limits.
I would not go less than 1.00mm simply because that is the lowest T&E available.
D
Dustydazzler
I would love to try 0.5mm T&E if it were available , think how neat you could clip it in a loft you could get 2 cables under a 1.5 clip
HHD is never going to live that down
Just looked like 1mm2,1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2 cables to me.
They pretended the 1mm2 was actually 0.5mm2 and the 1.5mm2 they pretended was 1.0mm2
'Here lies the man who though the meter yet walked the yard'
+1 to them for an April fools idea that actually makes for interesting discussion.
One problem with a very small cable is its lack of mechanical strength. Although @John-SJW is quite right that it could be installed in an electrically safe manner, it might be too flimsy without additional mechanical protection, at which point the advantage of economy is lost.
The reduction in overall size is moot; it might not be possible to reduce the radial thickness of the insulation and sheath, for both mechanical and electrical strength reasons, in which case the overall dimensions would be only slightly smaller than that of 1.0. The volume of plastic dominates in the small sizes under consideration, unlike say 70mmsq where the copper dominates over the plastic.
One problem with a very small cable is its lack of mechanical strength. Although @John-SJW is quite right that it could be installed in an electrically safe manner, it might be too flimsy without additional mechanical protection, at which point the advantage of economy is lost.
The reduction in overall size is moot; it might not be possible to reduce the radial thickness of the insulation and sheath, for both mechanical and electrical strength reasons, in which case the overall dimensions would be only slightly smaller than that of 1.0. The volume of plastic dominates in the small sizes under consideration, unlike say 70mmsq where the copper dominates over the plastic.
D
Dustydazzler
Also a lot of ham fisted DiYers and some ham fisted sparks struggle to make off 1mm connections without mashing the ---- out the copper conductor. So getting them to make of 0.5mm cable would be near impossible for them...
I do like the idea of 0.5mm cable for domestic lighting but the cost saved on cable over a basic rewire compared to 1mm would probably only be £10 , so hardly worth it in the grand scheme
I do like the idea of 0.5mm cable for domestic lighting but the cost saved on cable over a basic rewire compared to 1mm would probably only be £10 , so hardly worth it in the grand scheme
J
John-SJW
CH control wiring on retros is done using flex.
A two bedroomed flat with a 2A RCBO or MCB using 0.5mm, as been mentioned, can do the lighting for sure. 0.5mm has a maximum current load of about 3A. If there was 50 5w LED lights in the flat, it would be highly unlikely we know, it would be 250 watts, which is about 1 amp. Totally safe.
The thinner cables would be a dream to wire up inside single light switches with Wagos inside for the switched live, and easy to run being so thin. A 50m reel of three core 0.5mm cable with an insulated CPC is about £16.50. A 50m reel of 1.00mm T&E is about £22 plus earth sleeving. Using ferrules obviously would be a more professional job.
Nothing says in the regs you cannot use flex for house wiring. In a 3 bedroom house, one lighting circuit with a 2A RCBO or MCB in 0.5mm for downstairs with the same upstairs. Very safe.
The only problem is it may encourage cowboy work. If that is a problem. Also electricians will perceive it deskills their job.
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N
nicebutdim
That sort of makes Lucian's point about the ratio of plastics to copper and flex has an even greater CSA than T&E. While I enjoy the theraputic qualities of crimping ferrules on flex, it adds considerably to installation time.
J
John-SJW
One point raised. I prefer having a lighting junction in the light switch backbox rather than at the ceiling rose. It is easier to fit and fault find. Using T&E and a Wago in the light switch backbox made matters tight in there. 0.5mm and Wago in the backbox, makes it all so much easier.
Just thinking of positives of using 0.5mm over 1.00mm or 1.5mm T&E.
Just thinking of positives of using 0.5mm over 1.00mm or 1.5mm T&E.
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J
John-SJW
But the conductors are thinner when working inside backboxes and no earth sleeve needed. The flexible CPC conductor is ideal for connecting to metal backbox terminals. Pulling either of them will be similar. Then 0.5mm is cheaper.
An April Fool's joke sparked some positive thought.
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I think most people have moved on from 3 plating at the rose now to be honest. Light fitting design and smart switches drove that.
N
nicebutdim
But the conductors are thinner when working inside backboxes and no earth sleeve needed. The flexible CPC conductor is ideal for connecting to metal backbox terminals. Pulling either of them will be similar. Then 0.5mm is cheaper.
An April Fool's joke sparked some positive thought.
Comparing like with like, there's no benefit to flex in terms of size, but obviously there would be where conductor CSA is reduced. The downside to fine flex within back boxes is a greater likelihood of damage - from both DIY and 'professional' workmanship alike.
So, can we start using this 0.5mm then?
Changed my mind.
Can't pluck up the courage to pretend I'm that silly.
Close though
J
John-SJW
Entirely up to you. Nothing says you cannot. Before 1.00 mm T&E I am sure many viewed having that as they are doing now with 0.5mm. What! Such skinny cable!
Although when using 1.00mm cable fitting a 2A MCB must tighten up the safety margin. If you have a light switch switching a 5A round pin light outlet, with side lamps with 0.5mm flex, using a 6A MCB does not fully protect the 0.5mm flex. A 2A MCB will cover all scenarios.
6A MCB for lighting now is far too high. Before anyone comes in, I know it does fully protect the 1.00 T&E cable at with a 6A MCB.
Not quite, the regs still say 1mm minimum for copper fixed wiring (16mm for aluminium should you ever have the misfortune to work with it).
EDIT: Don't have new one, but 524.1 for Table 52.3 has details. Seems for flexible cables you can use 0.75mm, but the '*' note says for multicore bundles of 7 or more!
I agree here, these days it should be 3A or less for light circuits. That would also deal with the stupidity of extractor fans!
Some brands offer MCBs below 6A, with 4, 3, 2, 1 and 0.5 in some cases (usually only C/D curve), but I have not seen a RCBO below 6A yet.
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J
John-SJW
My point was that when 1.00 T&E was not available, many would be saying you can't introduce that bootlace when it was mooted 1.00mm T&E maybe coming.
I think I saw online a 2A//3A RCBO. Not cheap. Yes, 6A lighting MCBs and RCBOs are too high a value these days.
I think I saw online a 2A//3A RCBO. Not cheap. Yes, 6A lighting MCBs and RCBOs are too high a value these days.
I just tried a search and yes, some are available but not mainstream CU options. For example:
RCBOs | RCBO | Residential Circuit Breakers | RS
Shop our range of RCBOs to ensure your electrical circuits are running safely. Browse our latest RCBO Offers from leading brands. Free Next Day Delivery.
Cheapest is £63 but is 300mA trip! Suitable final circuit 30mA ones there start at £107 plus VAT.
Or this at £110 plus VAT:
If I had a request for mainstream CU it would be a 3A C-curve RCBO, that would have same switch-on limit (more or less) as current 6A B-curve MCB/RCBO and for dumbass extractor fan manufacturers.
L
loz2754
When was that? In the early 1800s?
J
John-SJW
You are too young.When was that? In the early 1800s?
J
John-SJW
It may have been available on order, but it was not sold in the mainstream dealers for sure. I was not aware of it. I came across it as a general stock item about 10-12 years ago when LEDs took off like a rocket.
I recall about 7 years ago a developer fitting 1.00mm T&E on the two lighting circuits in the houses. Shock, horror, bootlace! They used 6A MCBs rather than 3A, which was an oversight. 6A MCBs do protect the house cables, but 2A or 3A will protect 0.5mm flex to table lamps. The developer fitted a light switch in the living and dining rooms switching a few 5A round pin lighting sockets at skirting height for table lamps. Switching on-off the table lamps from one switch was selling feature. Memory is hazy but I think they fitted two-way switching in main bedroom to a bedside table lamp can be switched from the bed or doorway. Theoretically the 5A plug/socket is not protected using a 6A MCB. I assumed they used the cheaper 1.00mm T&E to offset the costs of the 5A lighting sockets.
The rule of thumb was that 1.5mm T&E was for lighting with no one ever thinking of doing anything else.
I recall about 7 years ago a developer fitting 1.00mm T&E on the two lighting circuits in the houses. Shock, horror, bootlace! They used 6A MCBs rather than 3A, which was an oversight. 6A MCBs do protect the house cables, but 2A or 3A will protect 0.5mm flex to table lamps. The developer fitted a light switch in the living and dining rooms switching a few 5A round pin lighting sockets at skirting height for table lamps. Switching on-off the table lamps from one switch was selling feature. Memory is hazy but I think they fitted two-way switching in main bedroom to a bedside table lamp can be switched from the bed or doorway. Theoretically the 5A plug/socket is not protected using a 6A MCB. I assumed they used the cheaper 1.00mm T&E to offset the costs of the 5A lighting sockets.
The rule of thumb was that 1.5mm T&E was for lighting with no one ever thinking of doing anything else.
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Funnily enough, the last bit of fixed wiring I installed was using 0.5mm2 flex. Wasn't in a building or 230V though.
The problem of poor physical strength of 0.5mm2 T&E could be overcome by incorporating strong string into the cable, as used to be common with flexibles.
The problem of poor physical strength of 0.5mm2 T&E could be overcome by incorporating strong string into the cable, as used to be common with flexibles.
Rule of thumb means absolutely nothing as there are many thumbs with alleged rules hanging from them.
1.0 T&E has been around in common use for at least fifty years.
2A and 5A sockets have been fitted to protective devices which exceed their rating for years in fact I have 2A sockets backed up by a 6A protective device, this is not an oversight because the socket does not require lesser protection due to the fact they support lighting appliances which will not subject them to excess current.
1.0 T&E has been around in common use for at least fifty years.
2A and 5A sockets have been fitted to protective devices which exceed their rating for years in fact I have 2A sockets backed up by a 6A protective device, this is not an oversight because the socket does not require lesser protection due to the fact they support lighting appliances which will not subject them to excess current.
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