1st big job, would like some tips

[scampy]

Big thanks to steve h and heathelec for thier answers, should have just asked how deep do you cut in and this post may have been more freindly!

In answer to all the other quieries to what makes you competant, i have a certificate to say i am. I have also passed my ELECSA assesment and can self certify.

I can imagine that to all you 5 year apprentice served sparkys us upstarts with our 5 say course seem like cowboy's. I can assure that i want to do things the best way possible and that is why i am qsking questions here for best practive and not what is the easy way.

I have a dozen jobs under my belt so far, mostly additions and alterations and a few rewires in garages, things i've done for free in mates garages for the practice.

this big job i'm going to undertake will be a nightmare for my brother-in-law who is a sparky with 20 years experiance as he'll be dragged onto site a few times to make sure i'm doing things right, my wife has told him so.

I ask the questions here and not of him because i don't want him to think me an idiot.

Thanks again for the pointers

 

[Bane]

Well, I think your stupid and crap and an idiot.

Oh and welcome to the site.

 

[No.15]

Wish I was half as c*mp*t*nt with the quick wit in dis forum

 

[Bane]

Comes with practice No.15.

You'll learn

 

[jeremy]

Best of luck scampy. you can learn from a book but you'll learn more from experience. where does the knowledge in the book come from? experience. i remember the first rewire I did. good thing those smoke dets worked! Never be scared to ask. you don't ask you don't get. sorry, rabbiting on again

 

[EasyFox]

no1,
how far do you go with the 1st fix? my understanding is you place the cables and boxes but you do not attatche to lights and sockets.

First & most important is put a socket in just below existing cu, kettle/chargers .
Start in daylight & do the lighting circuits first, test & energise on existing cu, gives you light in the evening to work late on other circuits (my other half hates me doing rewires) .
At this point decide on sso circuits (1x kitchen 1x up & 1x down) & circuit type ring/radial.
Fire in the socket circuits test & energise to existing cu.
then crack on with other circuits.
Lastly change the cu & tails.

do you go as far as setting up ganged lights and the attatching to junction boxes? He is unsure on what lights will be going in so i intend to uses junction boxes and take the switches from them, have i explained that right?

Never start a rewire unless you know what the customer wants (get it in writing).
In your case you'll end up lifting flooring twice make sure you have quoted accordingly.

No2
How deep do you cut in. i'm going to attatch the cable directly to brick work under metal earthed protection. i'll then need to cut in the boxes. i guess i'm asking, how thick do i presume the plaster will be?

CUT IN ... CUT IN in this game it's called chasing in
No need to earth the capping Infact no need to use it at all. Clipped direct is fine & case the back boxes in with 5mm protruding, you'll need to knock a chunk out of brick work to get the cables into the KO's on back boxes.

No3,
I think i know the answer to this. you do all the testing and inspection at the end of the second fix?

Not if you are gonna energise off the existing cu, before installing a 17th compliant cu.

Now for the lecture...........................................................
Rewires aren't a simple task off swapping cables, theres alot to think about & planning is a big part of the job (working in near darkness isnt an easy thing ).
This type of work isnt what you want to be doing as a fresh out of your 5 day sparks course bod, but if you have the quals & are deemed competant who are we to say no, just go steady & as if unsure (you'll get some micky taking but thats par for the course) we all had to start somewhere..........even if it was a 5 day course.
Anyway it gives the rest of us work putting right the cock ups.

Lastly I've not read all the posts so if you know sod all about sparking dont do it & sorry if I've given sod all help

 

[jibspark]

At the end of the day its hard to get experience in this sort of thing without jumping in, i say go for it and enjoy. I turned one down a year ago as i didn't have the balls, I've kicked myself since!

Just make sure you pop on here and ask advice if your unsure about anything, you might get a little pi55 taking but you will get a lot of experienced people offering good advice!

like you say you've got the basic quals to get you started, all that's lacking is experience which is what your gaining from what your doing.

Just make sure you and the house are safe by the time your done.

 

[Bane]

Good advice Jib!

*Applauds*

 

[heathelect]

hiya again
Take heed of what these lads are telling you, they know what they are talking about.
Go nice and steady with your rewire, and most of all if you are unsure, always ask.
good luck
dave

 

[scampy]

Some really helpfull advice coming through now, thanks again chaps. I have had the plans for the house for a week and i'm going in to take a look on Sunday, i'll make sure i make some good drawings and get the design signed off.

It's a 4 bed with a large en-sweet so i'm thinking of splitting the circuits as such.
ring up ring down
lights up lights down
kitchen
bathrooms
then cooker water heater showers fire alarms ect on thier own.

learnt a few more valuable things in this forum. it's chasing in and get a socket in early to make the tea.

I'm very nervous about this job but i beleive i can do it well and safe and it will be a massive learning tool. every day's a school day.

 

[ezzzekiel]

to be honest i would say the best jobs to learn on are rewires, you cant really go wrong when renewing the lot and by the time youve got a couple under your belt then domestic wise its a doddle.

take yer time follow the big red bible

 

[andy8758]

For my 5p on "competency" for being an electrical installer.......

I believe that there are 2 levels of competency:
- Competency of knowledge about compliant electrical installations, and application of that knowledge.
- Competency as a constructor on site.
I happen to believe that a good sparky needs to be competent at both levels, and having taken the EAL course (commonly called the Part P Qualification), 2382 17th wiring regs, and 2392 test/inspect of initial electrical installation - I believe that my training gave me the first competency, but not the second.

The problem with the domestic installer route as opposed to the 2330 full apprenticeship is that the former appears designed for those who have been working in various construction roles, and simply need to attain competency on the requirements for compliant electrical installations. The 2330 qualification requires a period working in the trade to qualify, which gives the full range of construction skills as well as the electrical theory and practice.

Before the various instructors tell me how their courses address the full range of skills - I wonder if they include carpentry, plastering, and masonary skills in their training? Along with metalwork, resistant materials, and a full range of health and safety issues (although some do include H & S).

So to my fellow Part P qualified people out there - we can all acquire the knowledge of electrical systems through reading and appropriate training, but you will still require the construction skills to complete the more demanding jobs like a re-wire. After all - don't think the customer will be too impressed if you cause a whole wall of plaster to crack and fall off when you start experimenting with chasing walls!

And if you are not skilled at designing the systems for the individual job (please don't work to "templates" used in other properties) then wait to gain more experience, and don't attempt re-wires based on the advice received in this forum.

Lecture over. Good luck to you all, and enjoy your work. I do.

 

[ezzzekiel]

don't think the customer will be too impressed if you cause a whole wall of plaster to crack and fall off

wouldnt that be a job for a plasterer?
dont get me wrong, i served my time as a plasterer before i retrained as a spark - but any holes, chases, damaged plaster thats left is down to the plasterer to sort out (granted i can price seperate for repair work) but generally on-site and off its not the electricians problem.......

otherwise good points

 

[wayne]

For my 5p on "competency" for being an electrical installer.......

I believe that there are 2 levels of competency:
- Competency of knowledge about compliant electrical installations, and application of that knowledge.
- Competency as a constructor on site.
I happen to believe that a good sparky needs to be competent at both levels, and having taken the EAL course (commonly called the Part P Qualification), 2382 17th wiring regs, and 2392 test/inspect of initial electrical installation - I believe that my training gave me the first competency, but not the second.

The problem with the domestic installer route as opposed to the 2330 full apprenticeship is that the former appears designed for those who have been working in various construction roles, and simply need to attain competency on the requirements for compliant electrical installations. The 2330 qualification requires a period working in the trade to qualify, which gives the full range of construction skills as well as the electrical theory and practice.

Before the various instructors tell me how their courses address the full range of skills - I wonder if they include carpentry, plastering, and masonary skills in their training? Along with metalwork, resistant materials, and a full range of health and safety issues (although some do include H & S).

So to my fellow Part P qualified people out there - we can all acquire the knowledge of electrical systems through reading and appropriate training, but you will still require the construction skills to complete the more demanding jobs like a re-wire. After all - don't think the customer will be too impressed if you cause a whole wall of plaster to crack and fall off when you start experimenting with chasing walls!

And if you are not skilled at designing the systems for the individual job (please don't work to "templates" used in other properties) then wait to gain more experience, and don't attempt re-wires based on the advice received in this forum.

Lecture over. Good luck to you all, and enjoy your work. I do.

in three words.....qualification and experience and one smiley