I still don't understand how the system is going to cope with:
Public EV chargers
Private EV chargers
The switch from gas heating and cooking to electric
The electricity needed for hydrogen production
The electricity needed for an increasing number of electric trains.

Maybe the grid can cope with all this, all though I've only seen one man's confirmation that it can.
That one man is a top man at National Grid. They are moving over to more wind and maybe wave and tidal as time moves on. They say they can cope. The secret is grid balancing - in short electricity/energy storage. There are banks of grid storage electric batteries in large sheds around the country. The advances in batteries mean they do not need to store the energy in stored water. Listen to him again, he is very clear.

The distribution network is constantly being upgraded. The roads near me are constantly being dug up for new cables, replacing old. They put bigger current carrying cables in.

I am having a good laugh here. :)
 
That one man is a top man at National Grid. They are moving over to more wind and maybe wave and tidal as time moves on. They say they can cope. The secret is grid balancing - in short electricity/energy storage. There are banks of grid storage electric batteries in large sheds around the country. The advances in batteries mean they do not need to store the energy in stored water. Listen to him again, he is very clear.

The distribution network is constantly being upgraded. The roads near me are constantly being dug up for new cables, replacing old. They put bigger current carrying cables in.

I am having a good laugh here. :)

Here's one for you then. What percentage of feeder cables to lamp posts in the UK have capacity for multiple charge points? No waffle, no going off at a tangent, no YouTube videos.
 
In Westminster we have over 450 on-street electric vehicle (EV) charge points, ranging from 3kw to 22kw, with more being added to provide greater coverage for the growing number of EV owners in the City.

That is just Westminster alone. You can request to have a charger outside your home.
.
Imagine requesting to have a petrol pump outside you home. In Westminster alone there is infinitely more charging points than petrol pumps. What percentage of lamp posts have petrol pumps on them?

They might get this in the end. ;)
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One of the four chargers outside my place. See, I never made it up. I took this photo on the way to the shops about an hour ago. It is still there. ;)
 
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Imagine requesting to have a petrol pump outside you home. In Westminster alone there is infinitely more charging points than petrol pumps.

They might get this in the end. ;)
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View attachment 60551

One of the four chargers outside my place. See, I never made it up.

Nobody is saying you made it up. You have a strange attitude.
 
Oh no. Everything I have written is lies or exaggerated. Read back on the thread. It must be. Hilarious.

You will find it is mostly because you avoided answering many questions, choosing often to answer what you thought, or perhaps wanted, people had asked. People are in the main not accusing you of lying.

And don't forget, there are lot of very experienced electricians on here, who are very conversant with the electrical infrastructure situation.
 
Back on topic. The Powerwall battery, from a real user.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6jyy0Joq8&t=1s

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You will find it is mostly because you avoided answering many questions, choosing often to answer what you thought, or perhaps wanted, people had asked. People are in the main not accusing you of lying.

And don't forget, there are lot of very experienced electricians on here, who are very conversant with the electrical infrastructure situation.
The answer were already given with supporting links. What questions came were loaded and narrow focused, not understanding the big picture. Usually by someone who thinking he is clever. Sorry Mate, too wise to be dragged into that corner.

Well these electrician who think there is a problem had better take it up the National Grid man

View: https://youtu.be/ONp8dismI-Q?t=837


National Grid man Kelloway explains matters very simply. Kelloway does stress the importance of balancing the grid using energy and electricity storage using water, large electric battery banks and hydrogen. This eliminates peaker power stations. Other ideas are around to balance.

I never made it up. Look at and listen to him. Learn for once.
 
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Back on topic. The Powerwall battery, from a real user.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6jyy0Joq8&t=1s

[automerge]1599063876[/automerge]

The answer were already given with supporting links. What questions came were loaded and narrow focused, not understanding the big picture. Usually by someone who thinking he is clever. Sorry Mate, too wise to be dragged into that corner.

Well these electrician who think there is a problem had better take it up the National Grid man

View: https://youtu.be/ONp8dismI-Q?t=837


National Grid man Kelloway explains matters very simply. Kelloway does stress the importance of balancing the grid using energy and electricity storage using water, large electric battery banks and hydrogen. This eliminates peaker power stations. Other ideas are around to balance.

I never made it up. Look at and listen to him. Learn for once.

Again, you answer the question you want to and not the ones I ask. So, at the risk of repeating myself too much: It is the local infrastructure managed by the DNOs that is being called into doubt. You also never answered my question about lamp post chargers.

By the way, I'm sure most of us don't need telling that balancing the grid is important. This is not a new thing.

I expect your reply will either be something childish, a youtube video, or a reference to 'the national grid man'.

You really don't want to see a balanced argument do you. I still think you have some commercial involvement somewhere. If it was just an interest of yours you would be keen to discuss advantages/disadvantages etc, but instead you just ignore things you don't like.

Update: I see you've disagreed with my question about the capability of lamp post feeders to supply charging points. How on earth can you 'disagree' with that?
 
Again, you answer the question you want to and not the ones I ask. So, at the risk of repeating myself too much: It is the local infrastructure managed by the DNOs that is being called into doubt. You also never answered my question about lamp post chargers.

By the way, I'm sure most of us don't need telling that balancing the grid is important. This is not a new thing.

I expect your reply will either be something childish, a youtube video, or a reference to 'the national grid man'.

You really don't want to see a balanced argument do you. I still think you have some commercial involvement somewhere. If it was just an interest of yours you would be keen to discuss advantages/disadvantages etc, but instead you just ignore things you don't like.

Update: I see you've disagreed with my question about the capability of lamp post feeders to supply charging points. How on earth can you 'disagree' with that?
The local infrastructure is being constantly being uprated. May not be at the end of your street, but it is. I did address that point.

The silly question about lamp post chargers was well...silly. I see no petrol pumps at lamp posts, never mind two of them.

I see you have selective amnesia when it comes to:
  • Tesla's new battery, introduced within days;
  • Toyota's new battery - on the market in 5 years;
  • The multitude if chargers in Westminster and Kensington - that is only two;
  • That you can request a charger outside your home. Try that with a petrol pump;
  • National Grid say - no problem with EVs;
  • EV pollute less in production of fuel;
  • etc;
Try to keep with events.
 
The local infrastructure is being constantly being uprated. May not be at the end of your street, but it is. I did address that point.

The silly question about lamp post chargers was well...silly. I see no petrol pumps at lamp posts, never mind two of them.

I see you have selective amnesia when it comes to:
  • Tesla's new battery, introduced within days;
  • Toyota's new battery - on the market in 5 years;
  • The multitude if chargers in Westminster and Kensington - that is only two;
  • That you can request a charger outside your home. Try that with a petrol pump;
  • National Grid say - no problem with EVs;
  • EV pollute less in production of fuel;
  • etc;
Try to keep with events.

And again you cannot give proper answers to questions, and you divert on to other things. The lamp post question is not silly, it is relevant to the claim that it would be possible to get charge points at lamp posts.
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Why do you guys keep feeding this troll?

Fair point Mike.
 
I came back on as I had notification that DPG had replied, what a brilliant function the Ignore is, all the John-SJW post have disappeared off the thread, wonderful, does make the post from you guys look a bit strange where you have quoted him over and over and over and over and over and (add infinitum).
 
I came back on as I had notification that DPG had replied, what a brilliant function the Ignore is, all the John-SJW post have disappeared off the thread, wonderful, does make the post from you guys look a bit strange where you have quoted him over and over and over and over and over and (add infinitum).

It's probably the best thing to do. But I'm intrigued by his stance. I'm sure there's more to it than just an interest.
 
The problem is that his stance is intransigent, he will not listen to anyone except himself.
I think there's intransigence from both sides of the argument... some people have already decided that EVs are a waste of time and refuse to see any of the advantages. Others, who see the ICE as the work of devil, refuse to see why we even allow them on the roads !
 
I think there's intransigence from both sides of the argument... some people have already decided that EVs are a waste of time and refuse to see any of the advantages. Others, who see the ICE as the work of devil, refuse to see why we even allow them on the roads !

To be fair I think most of us see the benefits of EVs, and are willing to embrace them. But it's no good blindly ignoring possible issues along the way.
 
Seriously guys, its futile discussing this with someone who does not have a basic grasp of physics and electricity. Also someone who believes stuff on the internet / youtube without qualifying any of it is a bad decision maker. He does not even have an EV and he certainly has not had to install charging points, or explain to clients of landlords who are banned from installing charging points because of the lack of power.

I think we all know EVs weaknesses that they are trying to address, like range and charge time but sadly this just pushed the problem onto very high KW chargers. I think there are very few Evs that have an onboard charger larger than 11KW. This limits how fast they can be charged, generally its over 9 hours.

If the market goes to DC supercharging direct to the battery pack, then mere mortals will not be able to afford these chargers as they are eye wateringly expensive and the space alone rules most locations out.

These lamp post chargers and supermarket ones are just toys.

My view is leave it another 5 years, all the first adopters who are willing to put up with all these obvious weaknesses will have developed the market so that ordinary cars become viable.
 
For some folk an EV is already a perfect solution for 99% of their use, even if they don't see it. And for the very occasional long-range trip it would be cheaper just to hire something else.

But unless you have a home with a drive for your charger (or very accommodating work car park) and a use-case pattern that limits the mileage requirements between charges it is still a bit out of the range of sensible decisions.
 
For some folk an EV is already a perfect solution for 99% of their use, even if they don't see it.
I agree... one of the problems is that people are directly comparing EVs to ICE vehicles. My diesel van does over 400 miles between refuels... but does that mean I need the same thing with an EV ?? Of course not... but that's often what people are expecting. The days when I do > 100 miles are very very rare, so why do I need 400 miles of range ? But that's often the expectation.
 
The problem is that his stance is intransigent, he will not listen to anyone except himself.

I am just about to "Unwatch" this thread, so guys please don't think I am ignoring you.
There is no debate with him it is his way or no way

I think there's intransigence from both sides of the argument... some people have already decided that EVs are a waste of time and refuse to see any of the advantages. Others, who see the ICE as the work of devil, refuse to see why we even allow them on the roads !
I don't think there is intransigence on both sides there is only one person that is arrogantly refusing to give answers to the questions asked of him, he thinks National Grid and the DNO's are one and the same and there will be electricity for all because the National Grid man says so and to keep posting links to videos and facts that are somewhat dubious to support his argument doesn't help his case
Th EV will happen but I see it part of a blended transport system with other technologies involved

To be fair I think most of us see the benefits of EVs, and are willing to embrace them. But it's no good blindly ignoring possible issues along the way.
The skepticism surrounding EV's is not helped by the gross exaggeration of the range per charge, if a car manufacturer quoted 40mpg and in the real world it only did 20mpg people would be boycotting that manufacturers vehicles but for some reason the poor range performance of EV's against the quoted range seems to be socially acceptable because it is environmentally friendly.
Once the practicalities of having and using an EV are ironed out especially where households have 2 or more vehicles then there will be change. Another issue that seems to be overlooked is that not everyone can afford or buys a new vehicle, that begs the question what should I look for and what should I check if I go to buy a secondhand EV

Seriously guys, its futile discussing this with someone who does not have a basic grasp of physics and electricity. Also someone who believes stuff on the internet / youtube without qualifying any of it is a bad decision maker. He does not even have an EV and he certainly has not had to install charging points, or explain to clients of landlords who are banned from installing charging points because of the lack of power.

I think we all know EVs weaknesses that they are trying to address, like range and charge time but sadly this just pushed the problem onto very high KW chargers. I think there are very few Evs that have an onboard charger larger than 11KW. This limits how fast they can be charged, generally its over 9 hours.

If the market goes to DC supercharging direct to the battery pack, then mere mortals will not be able to afford these chargers as they are eye wateringly expensive and the space alone rules most locations out.

These lamp post chargers and supermarket ones are just toys.

My view is leave it another 5 years, all the first adopters who are willing to put up with all these obvious weaknesses will have developed the market so that ordinary cars become viable.
I can only agree with the futility of this discussion but this is being driven by one person who will not deviate from his crusade despite the extensive knowledge and experience of the people who have posted in this thread regarding the issues that will affect the wholesale change to an EV and electric future

For some folk an EV is already a perfect solution for 99% of their use, even if they don't see it. And for the very occasional long-range trip it would be cheaper just to hire something else.

But unless you have a home with a drive for your charger (or very accommodating work car park) and a use-case pattern that limits the mileage requirements between charges it is still a bit out of the range of sensible decisions.
This post hits the nail on the head, in the next few years we will have to look more closely at moving over to EV's but to achieve this there are a number of hurdles that need to be addressed to overcome the resistance to them these will hopefully have been solved by that time and the EV will be no different to the ICE vehicle

I agree... one of the problems is that people are directly comparing EVs to ICE vehicles. My diesel van does over 400 miles between refuels... but does that mean I need the same thing with an EV ?? Of course not... but that's often what people are expecting. The days when I do > 100 miles are very very rare, so why do I need 400 miles of range ? But that's often the expectation.
But the similar argument could be put that most times a Fiesta van would be perfectly adequate for daily use but then occasionally it might be a Transit connect or a larger Transit is needed for a week or two through the year. The current solution is buy the Transit it will cover every need the alternative is the inconveience of occasionally having to hire a larger vehicle
 
I don't think there is intransigence on both sides there is only one person that is arrogantly refusing to give answers to the questions asked of him...
I was speaking generally... the pro EV group vs. the pro ICE group... never specifically about one person... if the debate is at the micro level, we don't get anywhere... it's the macro picture that's important.
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But the similar argument could be put that most times a Fiesta van would be perfectly adequate for daily use but then occasionally it might be a Transit connect or a larger Transit is needed for a week or two through the year. The current solution is buy the Transit it will cover every need the alternative is the inconveience of occasionally having to hire a larger vehicle
It's not really that similar. The solution to my one day a year dilemma when I want to travel further than the range allows is to stop for 30 mins to re-charge. And that's probably a stop I'd make anyway. The point I was making is that the range issue has been largely solved... notice that I say 'largely' not 'totally'... you'll always find an example of someone that still has an issue with it.

I'm currently evaluating whether an Electric Van would work for me... there are pros and cons, as there are with everything in life. But for me, range is not an issue.
 
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I was speaking generally... the pro EV group vs. the pro ICE group... never specifically about one person... if the debate is at the micro level, we don't get anywhere... it's the macro picture that's important.
Apologies I looked at your comment in the wrong context
The whole EV debate has got many years to run yet there will be hardcore groups in each camp, John on here was beyond a hardcore fanatic IMO.
I have followed EV battery development for the last 40 odd years and I am still open minded on the subject, it can work but the EV industry needs to be more transparent when it comes to range and look to minimise the issues of charging during a long journey which was highlighted on the ITV programme on Thursday evening

It's not really that similar. The solution to my one day a year dilemma when I want to travel further than the range allows is to stop for 30 mins to re-charge. And that's probably a stop I'd make anyway. The point I was making is that the range issue has been largely solved... notice that I say 'largely' not 'totally'... you'll always find an example of someone that still has an issue with it.

I'm currently evaluating whether an Electric Van would work for me... there are pros and cons, as there are with everything in life. But for me, range is not an issue.
I beg to differ regarding the similarities there are many similar examples I have friends and relatives who tow caravans and boats, for most of the time they don't need the vehicle they use daily but they need a vehicle that is capable of towing a number of times a year so they tailor their choice of vehicle to a vehicle capable of towing their trailer. It is the same with vans do we use a small vehicle and only carry the tools and materials for a particular job or do we have a larger vehicle and carry a lot of tools and materials that we may need but are rarely used.
Taking the same view to the EV as you have previously mentioned most of the time an EV capable of 100 or so miles would be more than adequate for most daily use but that odd trip that requires a longer range becomes more complex, having to stop every third or fourth service station down the motorway to recharge becomes inconvenient when I'm comfortable doing 200 - 300miles without stopping, about 2 years ago myself and another guy did the trip from Huelva, Spain to Wigan (1640 miles) via the channel tunnel in 32 hours including about 6 - 7 stops for a driver change, food and comfort breaks including 4 refuels, I'm not sure I would want to do that in a current EV that needs an hour or 2 to recharge every ???? miles.
 
i went from using a small van for 15 years direct, to using a car as a van when i went subbie instead.
much nicer to drive long distances... :)
for 15 years i hauled around everything including the kitchen sink and never used half of it.

admittedly a domestic plumber/ spark jobbing around a small area, needs to carry every tool and a wide selection of parts.
but as a commercial installer your jobs are booked in.... you know what tools you're going to need/load up for the day, and can have the parts delivered to site.
at a push you can always hire large items for the rare times you need them unexpectedly.

but a tesla....

would have been no good for me in my day... having covered up to 2000 miles in a week occasionally...
southhampton one day, newcastle the next, then flint in wales, then over the norwich....
 

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