T
thekingiam
Just read a blog stating all cu in domestic to be fire retardent is this true and does that mean all cu to be metal
That's the gossip although I don't think it's definite yet
O
Octopus
January 2016 is the date for this. More worryingly is the requirement for all cable entry points to be fire retardant too so this is going to be expensive.
this was covered by the NICEIC at elex last week and I asked if a smoke alarm could be installed in the location of the cu instead - which I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea but Tony Cable didn't
this was covered by the NICEIC at elex last week and I asked if a smoke alarm could be installed in the location of the cu instead - which I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea but Tony Cable didn't
Didn't expect him to agree to a common sense approach did you Murdoch??
P
Plonker 3
Does that mean another amendment 12 months later then?
they have 20mm knockouts or a 20mm wholesaw and stuffing glands
or if there are a lot of cables, backbox in wall, gunk it up then then put cables into the back of the consumer unit
sorry didnt proof read
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According to IET Wiring Matters magazine, the consumer unit requirement won't start until January 2016 although it is part of A3.
That does not surprise me in the slightest, never had it with old cu's solid bus bar, two terminal screws on N&L, just don't like the modularrange, flimsy din rail.
Was that in the first morning session?
A
alanl
Right, for the umpteenth time, no, new CUs and switchgear do NOT need to be metal.
However, it will need to be 'fire retardent' from January 2016.
The 3rd Amendment comes into effect on July 1st 2015, but, due to manufacturers pressure, the requirement for fire retardent CUs has been put back to 2016.
It makes one wonder - if they are dangerous in 2016, why arent they dangerous now?
Anyway, there is also a new BS 61439 (iirc) coming in early next year, which will require CU plastics able to withstand (again, iirc) 950 degrees, rather than the current 650 degrees, and also be self-extinguishing.
So, all CUs will need to meet the new BS61439 early next year, which will also mean they will pass the new BS7671 fire retardent regs.
However, it will need to be 'fire retardent' from January 2016.
The 3rd Amendment comes into effect on July 1st 2015, but, due to manufacturers pressure, the requirement for fire retardent CUs has been put back to 2016.
It makes one wonder - if they are dangerous in 2016, why arent they dangerous now?
Anyway, there is also a new BS 61439 (iirc) coming in early next year, which will require CU plastics able to withstand (again, iirc) 950 degrees, rather than the current 650 degrees, and also be self-extinguishing.
So, all CUs will need to meet the new BS61439 early next year, which will also mean they will pass the new BS7671 fire retardent regs.
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alanl
Please give a link to your ideas?
All correspondence from The IET has been about 'fire retardent', not 'metal'.
You read the IET forum, so know what has been said about it there.
Geoff Cronshaw has been quoted recently as saying "CU's will need to meet BS61439-3.." which will make them more fire resistant.
All correspondence from The IET has been about 'fire retardent', not 'metal'.
You read the IET forum, so know what has been said about it there.
Geoff Cronshaw has been quoted recently as saying "CU's will need to meet BS61439-3.." which will make them more fire resistant.
T
trev
I wish this could just stop, it's been done to death but still gets resurrected a few times a week and nothing ever changes.
Remember when the 17th was first brought in? A lot of people were running round in a panic AAAAAAAA They're Going To Ban Rings! AAAAAA The Sky Will Fall On Our Heads! AAAAAAAA What Will We DO!
What happened?
Well not a great deal. A lot of us are still installing rings and a lot have switched to radials. The rest of us install both as best suits the situation.
If it's a requirement of the new amendment we'll have a few months to get used to it and use up what ever stock we have before it becomes set in stone. If it isn't then we'll have a few months to get used to what ever new rules will be introduced and we'll quietly get on with our usual job of ensuring compliance. Nothing much will change, we'll have paid through the nose for the new books and the world will carry on turning.
Can we just stop.
Now.
Please.
Remember when the 17th was first brought in? A lot of people were running round in a panic AAAAAAAA They're Going To Ban Rings! AAAAAA The Sky Will Fall On Our Heads! AAAAAAAA What Will We DO!
What happened?
Well not a great deal. A lot of us are still installing rings and a lot have switched to radials. The rest of us install both as best suits the situation.
If it's a requirement of the new amendment we'll have a few months to get used to it and use up what ever stock we have before it becomes set in stone. If it isn't then we'll have a few months to get used to what ever new rules will be introduced and we'll quietly get on with our usual job of ensuring compliance. Nothing much will change, we'll have paid through the nose for the new books and the world will carry on turning.
Can we just stop.
Now.
Please.
Or an increasing number of the 'clever brigade' doing the installing.
U
urbanmonkey
We were told tonight that the consumer unit will need to be fire retardant or in a fire retardant enclosure, the suggestion put forward was that the new units will be 'of ferrous metal construction' all knockouts etc will have to have fire retardant inserts in them. (jan 2016)
Also all cables in plastic trunking etc will need some sort of fire retardant support in case of the containment failing due to thermal effects, this will also affect cables concealed in floors above a ceiling. (inception date not verified)
EICR coding will change with FIR becoming a code in its own right, the check boxes on the EIC will change to a format similar to the EICR. (july 2015)
Loop Impedance values will be reduced. (july 2015)
The regulation stating that a socket can have RCD protection omitted will be deleted and replaced with a regulation stating that RCD protection can only be omitted if a risk assessment is attached to the EIC, this will not apply to dwellings, where all socket outlets under 20A will require RCD protection. (july 2015)
Any cables passing through a zone in a special location will require RCD protection irrespective of installation method. (july 2015)
There were a few other changes, but the gist of it is that material costs will rise, and some jobs will become much more labour intensive, rewires will become a bit more awkward for obvious reasons
Also all cables in plastic trunking etc will need some sort of fire retardant support in case of the containment failing due to thermal effects, this will also affect cables concealed in floors above a ceiling. (inception date not verified)
EICR coding will change with FIR becoming a code in its own right, the check boxes on the EIC will change to a format similar to the EICR. (july 2015)
Loop Impedance values will be reduced. (july 2015)
The regulation stating that a socket can have RCD protection omitted will be deleted and replaced with a regulation stating that RCD protection can only be omitted if a risk assessment is attached to the EIC, this will not apply to dwellings, where all socket outlets under 20A will require RCD protection. (july 2015)
Any cables passing through a zone in a special location will require RCD protection irrespective of installation method. (july 2015)
There were a few other changes, but the gist of it is that material costs will rise, and some jobs will become much more labour intensive, rewires will become a bit more awkward for obvious reasons
S
specs
We were told tonight that the consumer unit will need to be fire retardant or in a fire retardant enclosure, the suggestion put forward was that the new units will be 'of ferrous metal construction' all knockouts etc will have to have fire retardant inserts in them. (jan 2015)
Also all cables in plastic trunking etc will need some sort of fire retardant support in case of the containment failing due to thermal effects, this will also affect cables concealed in floors above a ceiling. (inception date not verified) ---------------------------------------------------------- Lets just hope they don't want them made up of 'cast iron', can you imagine trying to put a 12 way board up made of cast. Stainless steel would be better all shiny and bright and edges like razors
Also all cables in plastic trunking etc will need some sort of fire retardant support in case of the containment failing due to thermal effects, this will also affect cables concealed in floors above a ceiling. (inception date not verified) ---------------------------------------------------------- Lets just hope they don't want them made up of 'cast iron', can you imagine trying to put a 12 way board up made of cast. Stainless steel would be better all shiny and bright and edges like razors
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urbanmonkey
I already had the white paper months ago, thought I would go along with another spark who hadn't seen it and to see if there had been any changes. There were more items he went through but to be honest I switched off and drifted into my own world and started drawing fighting stickmen and caricatures of the bloke doing the talk.
O
Octopus
That is just nonsense. Suggest you read the proposed updates again.
U
urbanmonkey
Reg numbers were quoted at us, so no 'nonsense' involved. I've read the proposed updates months ago, today was a run through of the actual updates with new reg numbers.
Speaking as somebody who has lost somebody very close to me in a fire, I think its a good idea, Firemen and building occupants are killed every year by cables hanging down and getting caught up in them or blocking escape routes, I wouldn't call saving a few lives 'nonsense'! It has been the spec on most of the industrial jobs I've been on for a good few years now, metal tie wraps on cables that rise vertically or travel horizontally on tray or over doorways etc etc.
Already products on the market to make this easy enough, cables under floors will be a bit more labour intensive obviously.
O
Octopus
As I said before that is total nonsense. Sure there are "some" situations where this is relevent but ALL plastic trunking or conduit - absolutely not and as for above ceilings - that is tripe.
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urbanmonkey
And they are all keeping it a big secret and it will be a huge surprise come january when the yellow book is available? The scams are told what is happening, so they can tell us, so as an industry we are somewhat prepared.
D
davesparks
The scams aren't told any more than we are!
The scams just make up their own version and peach it as gospel.
Is anyone spreading the rumour about choc blocks being banned this time around? Or how about the demise of our trust ring finals? That one always causes a stir.
The scams just make up their own version and peach it as gospel.
Is anyone spreading the rumour about choc blocks being banned this time around? Or how about the demise of our trust ring finals? That one always causes a stir.
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