amendment 3 metal consumer units for domestic

[thekingiam]

Just read a blog stating all cu in domestic to be fire retardent is this true and does that mean all cu to be metal

 

[Pete999]

Just read a blog stating all cu in domestic to be fire retardent is this true and does that mean all cu to be metal

That's the gossip although I don't think it's definite yet

 

[urbanmonkey]

I've got a NAPIT organised thing tonight about all this, doubtless it will be asked. I'll make a thread with what they are saying about it all tomorrow if I get the chance.

 

[amlu]

i wish it went into the regs, most of the plastic units are cheap crap anyway.
pay 20 quid more and get a solid metal box.

 

[Octopus]

January 2016 is the date for this. More worryingly is the requirement for all cable entry points to be fire retardant too so this is going to be expensive.

this was covered by the NICEIC at elex last week and I asked if a smoke alarm could be installed in the location of the cu instead - which I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea but Tony Cable didn't

 

[Pete999]

January 2016 is the date for this. More worryingly is the requirement for all cable entry points to be fire retardant too so this is going to be expensive.

this was covered by the NICEIC at elex last week and I asked if a smoke alarm could be installed in the location of the cu instead - which I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea but Tony Cable didn't

Didn't expect him to agree to a common sense approach did you Murdoch??

 

[Plonker 3]

January 2016 is the date for this. More worryingly is the requirement for all cable entry points to be fire retardant too so this is going to be

Does that mean another amendment 12 months later then?

 

[shanky887614]

January 2016 is the date for this. More worryingly is the requirement for all cable entry points to be fire retardant too so this is going to be expensive.

this was covered by the NICEIC at elex last week and I asked if a smoke alarm could be installed in the location of the cu instead - which I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea but Tony Cable didn't

how?

a tube of fire mastic should be fine

 

[Knobhead]

Wait until the amendments come out. It’s all speculation at the moment.

From what I can gather some plastics will pass the new test they are talking of.

 

[infinity]

What are the statistics then on houses burning down due to new modern plastic consumer units? Metal consumer units will be a pain in the --- trying to cut out for cable entry etc

 

[shanky887614]

What are the statistics then on houses burning down due to new modern plastic consumer units? Metal consumer units will be a pain in the --- trying to cut out for cable entry etc

they have 20mm knockouts or a 20mm wholesaw and stuffing glands

or if there are a lot of cables, backbox in wall, gunk it up then then put cables into the back of the consumer unit

sorry didnt proof read

 

[Pete999]

they have 20mm knockouts or a 20mm wholesaw and stuffing glands

or if there are a lot of cables, backbox in wall, gunk it up then end back of consumer unit

"gunk it up then end end back of CU" ?

 

[ImpededLoop]

Does that mean another amendment 12 months later then?

According to IET Wiring Matters magazine, the consumer unit requirement won't start until January 2016 although it is part of A3.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Apparently there has been an increase in CU fires in the UK over the last few years.
Wouldn't surprise me to find that it's due to these so called 17th edition boards.

 

[7029 dave]

Apparently there has been an increase in CU fires in the UK over the last few years.
Wouldn't surprise me to find that it's due to these so called 17th edition boards.

That does not surprise me in the slightest, never had it with old cu's solid bus bar, two terminal screws on N&L, just don't like the modularrange, flimsy din rail.

 

[netblindpaul]

January 2016 is the date for this. More worryingly is the requirement for all cable entry points to be fire retardant too so this is going to be expensive.

this was covered by the NICEIC at elex last week and I asked if a smoke alarm could be installed in the location of the cu instead - which I thought was a perfectly reasonable idea but Tony Cable didn't

Was that in the first morning session?

 

[alanl]

Right, for the umpteenth time, no, new CUs and switchgear do NOT need to be metal.
However, it will need to be 'fire retardent' from January 2016.
The 3rd Amendment comes into effect on July 1st 2015, but, due to manufacturers pressure, the requirement for fire retardent CUs has been put back to 2016.
It makes one wonder - if they are dangerous in 2016, why arent they dangerous now?

Anyway, there is also a new BS 61439 (iirc) coming in early next year, which will require CU plastics able to withstand (again, iirc) 950 degrees, rather than the current 650 degrees, and also be self-extinguishing.

So, all CUs will need to meet the new BS61439 early next year, which will also mean they will pass the new BS7671 fire retardent regs.

 

[Octopus]

Was that in the first morning session?

Yes!!!

 

[rompling]

So do any new boards meet this requirement?
Is it a case if fitting any new ones to future proof for 2016 ?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Right, for the umpteenth time, no, new CUs and switchgear do NOT need to be metal.[b/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, this has still not been finalised.
At present, it would appear that metal CUs are going to be the requirement.
The Glow wire test of 960 degrees appears to have been dropped.

 

[alanl]

Please give a link to your ideas?

All correspondence from The IET has been about 'fire retardent', not 'metal'.
You read the IET forum, so know what has been said about it there.
Geoff Cronshaw has been quoted recently as saying "CU's will need to meet BS61439-3.." which will make them more fire resistant.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as I can tell, the consensus is metal on the IET forum.

 

[Octopus]

As far as I can tell, the consensus is metal on the IET forum.

BEEMA have also issued some clarification too.

 

[trev]

I wish this could just stop, it's been done to death but still gets resurrected a few times a week and nothing ever changes.
Remember when the 17th was first brought in? A lot of people were running round in a panic AAAAAAAA They're Going To Ban Rings! AAAAAA The Sky Will Fall On Our Heads! AAAAAAAA What Will We DO!
What happened?
Well not a great deal. A lot of us are still installing rings and a lot have switched to radials. The rest of us install both as best suits the situation.
If it's a requirement of the new amendment we'll have a few months to get used to it and use up what ever stock we have before it becomes set in stone. If it isn't then we'll have a few months to get used to what ever new rules will be introduced and we'll quietly get on with our usual job of ensuring compliance. Nothing much will change, we'll have paid through the nose for the new books and the world will carry on turning.
Can we just stop.
Now.
Please.

 

[ipf]

Apparently there has been an increase in CU fires in the UK over the last few years.
Wouldn't surprise me to find that it's due to these so called 17th edition boards.

Or an increasing number of the 'clever brigade' doing the installing.

 

[Knobhead]

:hurray: Thank you Trev :hurray:

 

[amlu]

old units like wylex 3036 had 2 screws on each terminal, especially incomer.
modern have only one. when that one gets loose things start to get warm :-(

 

[urbanmonkey]

We were told tonight that the consumer unit will need to be fire retardant or in a fire retardant enclosure, the suggestion put forward was that the new units will be 'of ferrous metal construction' all knockouts etc will have to have fire retardant inserts in them. (jan 2016)

Also all cables in plastic trunking etc will need some sort of fire retardant support in case of the containment failing due to thermal effects, this will also affect cables concealed in floors above a ceiling. (inception date not verified)

EICR coding will change with FIR becoming a code in its own right, the check boxes on the EIC will change to a format similar to the EICR. (july 2015)

Loop Impedance values will be reduced. (july 2015)

The regulation stating that a socket can have RCD protection omitted will be deleted and replaced with a regulation stating that RCD protection can only be omitted if a risk assessment is attached to the EIC, this will not apply to dwellings, where all socket outlets under 20A will require RCD protection. (july 2015)

Any cables passing through a zone in a special location will require RCD protection irrespective of installation method. (july 2015)

There were a few other changes, but the gist of it is that material costs will rise, and some jobs will become much more labour intensive, rewires will become a bit more awkward for obvious reasons

 

[Plonker 3]

So basically they sat you down and read the proposed draft that was released several months ago.

Thats a couple of hours of your life that you womt get back.

 

[specs]

We were told tonight that the consumer unit will need to be fire retardant or in a fire retardant enclosure, the suggestion put forward was that the new units will be 'of ferrous metal construction' all knockouts etc will have to have fire retardant inserts in them. (jan 2015)

Also all cables in plastic trunking etc will need some sort of fire retardant support in case of the containment failing due to thermal effects, this will also affect cables concealed in floors above a ceiling. (inception date not verified) ---------------------------------------------------------- Lets just hope they don't want them made up of 'cast iron', can you imagine trying to put a 12 way board up made of cast. Stainless steel would be better all shiny and bright and edges like razors