Borrowed Neutral Problem.

[pingu]

Hello forum electricians.

Firstly just to explain I was an electrician but have not re-certified to 17th edition or worked as an electrician for a very long time. So that's me.

Anyway I recently had the kitchen upgraded and decided to do the electrical work myself refreshing and verifying additions just to make sure. I transpired the electrics were a death trap with spurs everywhere but sorted all that out.

Last job was to upgrade the CU. Low and behold borrowed neutral issue.

As I see it I have two options.

1 Put upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits into the same MCB. OK in an ideal world I would like two lighting circuits and this may be a temporary fix until I redecorate the hall at which time I could run a separate neutral.

2 Run a separate neutral now.

The issue I see with running a separate neutral in my installation would be that in the hall I have the downstairs toilet, the hall and landing on a three gang switch. On the landing I have the bathroom and the landing on a two gang switch.

If I run a separate neutral should I separate the switches on the landing as if you isolate the downstairs lighting there would still be the upstairs bathroom light circuit live in the same back box. From recollection you cannot have two separate circuits in the same box I would need a common point of isolation.

 

[Edd]

Stick a 6" sticker above the switch that says that it requires multiple means of isolaton. you could make it a feature.
Joking aside this is brought up in an NIC video, and old tony cable recons we should put a sticker in the back of the box so when you take the switch off its clear.. If you ask me, if your taking a 2 gang switch off at the bottom of the stairs and dont know that theres possibly 2 seprate circuits, then really you need to carefully screw it back and get a sparks in.
Dont worry to much Pingu just rewire that bit, theres also a tick box on the cert that will cover it..

 

[pingu]

I'd be happy with a big sticker but I don't think Doris would some how. As long as its within the regs I am happy to have two circuits in the box. As you say you should not assume stuff is dead just because you pulled the fuse. (showing my age there probably should say tripped the breaker)

That probably leads to another question which is do I have to get the new CU inspected/tested.

I think after finding the horrors that I did in the kitchen I will get an inspection for peace of mind.

Any idea how much I am looking at for a testing/inspection and what do I need to get done specifically.

 

[telectrix]

to do it properly, you need to run a 3 core between the 2 way switches, then feed the landing light L from the upstairs circuit, remove the L link in the hall switches. as a temp fix, do as you said and feed both circuits from the same MCB.

 

[pingu]

So the landing light should be off the upstairs circuit not the downstairs?

Also why would a two core and a single be different from a 3 core?

Didn't realise it would make a difference. I will have to have a closer look to see exactly what is needed.

Apologies if I am being dumb!

 

[kingeri]

As I'm sure you know, you can wire two-way with T&E and take a feed from one common to the light and from the other to the supply. On a rewire, it is much more preferable these days to run 3C&E between the switches and take the strappers off L1 and L2 at one switch. The same end result, but avoids either unused cores in T&E or single&earths which we wouldn't generally use these days!

 

[shagbite]

something's not ringing true here. the op's from widnes and he reckons he's got a "downstairs toilet" in the "hall". i think he means he's got an outside privy in the backyard. this would suggest that it needs to be on it's own circuit.

 

[pingu]

Thanks shagbite only joined 24 hours ago and been insulted. We even had a stairlift on its own circuit but thats gone now. Anyway thats why I asked if I could run a single, save some money rather than buying 3 core, OK so I am cheap.

If you are local maybe you want to come and test.

Your going to tell me my shed should be on its own circuit? As I said not been a spark for many years so not up on the regs. The shed circuits is taken through a single socket to an SWA to the shed but the 2.5 feeding the socket is in with the downstairs ring.

All this because the Mrs has lived here for years and I think every job was done by cowboys.

 

[thekingiam]

you also have to find an electrician that will sighn other peoples work off.

 

[shagbite]

Thanks shagbite only joined 24 hours ago and been insulted. We even had a stairlift on its own circuit but thats gone now. Anyway thats why I asked if I could run a single, save some money rather than buying 3 core, OK so I am cheap.

If you are local maybe you want to come and test.

Your going to tell me my shed should be on its own circuit? As I said not been a spark for many years so not up on the regs. The shed circuits is taken through a single socket to an SWA to the shed but the 2.5 feeding the socket is in with the downstairs ring.

All this because the Mrs has lived here for years and I think every job was done by cowboys.

by "stairlift" do you mean a block and tackle?

just a bit of gentle ribbing mate. us northern lads love a bit of banter.

unfortunately mate, i'm in yorkshire and i'm snowed under at the minute, so i can't take you up on your offer. sorry.

 

[pingu]

Don't mind ribbing shag. Need a block and tackle to get Doris upstairs now after ripping the stairlift out.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Don't mind ribbing shag. Need a block and tackle to get Doris upstairs now after ripping the stairlift out.

You have got stairs, haven't you?

 

[WayneL]

So you've broken the law and now you want someone else to break the law for you as well?

 

[pingu]

Hmm ok Wayne nobody else here has referred to breaking any laws yet your first post on this thread is I have broken the law and I want someone else to break the law for me as well.

Please explain.

 

[ackbarthestar]

So you've broken the law and now you want someone else to break the law for you as well?

What.....using a block and tackle to get the misses into bed? That's a new one !

Now, wearing pokadot pjs might be worth a summons....