Connecting Consumer Units.

[Dal]

Hi!

First off I'd like to make clear that this installation is in Spain so UK regs don't necessarily apply but I'm just looking for some feedback and peace of mind that what I want to do isn't too stupid! (p.s. no ring main, all radial circuits and yes, we are earthed!)

I've lived in a ground floor apartment in a small block of 9 for 15 years and we've just purchased the identical apartment directly above us.

My question, or rather I'd like your thoughts on, is the idea of connecting upstair's consumer unit to the downstair's one.

The apartment upstairs has been empty for 10 years and the power was cut off long ago, there is no longer a meter for it. As there is going to be no more electricity used than when we just had the one apartment I'd like to keep things simple and treat upstairs like an extension out to a garage for example.
I thought of connecting to where my meter connects to my RCD and running cable up to the matching RCD upstairs.

Is this feasible? Is there a better way?

Thanks in advance!

Dal.

 

[Midwest]

There would be a way of doing what you are suggesting. If this was in the UK, I would of recommended using an competent electrician. As this is in Spain, and I have no idea of their wiring regulations, I would also recommend employing the services of a competent Spanish resident electrician.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - remember you will need to preserve the fire rating of the two independent flats and the building.

 

[Dal]

p.s. Here's my consumer unit to give you an idea of size of things, standards etc lol!

 

[pirate]

From personal experience in Spain I would suggest you get a local spark to do this for you. They are not expensive, and some of the circuits are decidedly odd...as are the zones where the cables are installed.

 

[Dal]

From personal experience in Spain I would suggest you get a local spark to do this for you. They are not expensive, and some of the circuits are decidedly odd...as are the zones where the cables are installed.

I apologise, I didn't make it clear in my first post, I'll be doing the work myself. All I want is pros and cons of connecting one CU to another.

 

[Pete999]

There would be a way of doing what you are suggesting. If this was in the UK, I would of recommended using an competent electrician. As this is in Spain, and I have no idea of their wiring regulations, I would also recommend employing the services of a competent Spanish resident electrician.

Elsparko may be able to help, Elsparko, no? oh well just a joke.

 

[telectrix]

can't see a problem with henley blocking the tails and splitting off to the other CU. spanish regs . may dictate what cabling you need to do this. e.g. SWA or sheathed tails.

 

[Spoon]

can't see a problem with henley blocking the tails and splitting off to the other CU. spanish regs . may dictate what cabling you need to do this. e.g. SWA or sheathed tails.

Be interesting to see if they require a fused isolator for the upper CU.

 

[Midwest]

I apologise, I didn't make it clear in my first post, I'll be doing the work myself. All I want is pros and cons of connecting one CU to another.

What are your qualifications or experience for doing electrical installations in domestic properties in Spain?

 

[MJPD29]

I presume if you are doing it all yourself you are an electrician anyway, or id like to hope so

 

[Dal]

I presume if you are doing it all yourself you are an electrician anyway, or id like to hope so

If I were a qualified electrician I wouldn't be on this forum asking advice on, what I would hope, is an extremely easy job for a qualified electrician.
I've had plenty of experience of wiring for 30+ years, am reasonably intelligent, safety conscience and usually make a neater/stronger/tidier/safer/better job than most of the so called professionals that I've employed in the past, but no, not qualified as such. If that's a problem for running 2 or 3 wires and adding some kind of isolator then I shouldn't even change a plug.

 

[Midwest]

If I were a qualified electrician I wouldn't be on this forum asking advice on, what I would hope, is an extremely easy job for a qualified electrician.
I've had plenty of experience of wiring for 30+ years, am reasonably intelligent, safety conscience and usually make a neater/stronger/tidier/safer/better job than most of the so called professionals that I've employed in the past, but no, not qualified as such. If that's a problem for running 2 or 3 wires and adding some kind of isolator then I shouldn't even change a plug.

Firstly, most of us on this forum don't have any or sufficient knowledge of Spanish wiring regulations or building regulations to give suitable advice.

Secondly, if this was such a simple job and you had the knowledge, you would be asking such questions here.

Dal, not wishing to be rude, but this is not a simple DIY job. There are various considerations for the design & installation & testing for what you are proposing.

You should take the advice, and employ a competent electrician (preferably of the Spanish variety).

 

[Rpa07]

Or learn Spanish well enough to use a Spanish electricians forum and ask them the same question - I bet they’ll only be too pleased to help you out!

 

[camerabloke]

Si

 

[pirate]

Buenos dias amigo...tiene cambiar tu panel de electricidad, si?

Puedo hacerlo para usted, y muy barato tambien

 

[pirate]

Buenos dias amigo...tiene cambiar to panel de electricidad, si?

Puedo hacerlo para usted, y muy barato tambien

 

[Rpa07]

So good He said it twice!

 

[Pete999]

Elsparko may be able to help, Elsparko, no? oh well just a joke.

Elsparko is a Forum member by the way

 

[Pete999]

Buenos dias amigo...tiene cambiar to panel de electricidad, si?

Puedo hacerlo para usted, y muy barato tambien

Whats that in English?

 

[pirate]

Good day my friend...you have to change your consumer unit?
I can do it for you, and very cheap too

Just practising for my next sojourn to Spain in April...
can't wait, this weather here is doing my head in.

 

[Pete999]

Good day my friend...you have to change your consumer unit?
I can do it for you, and very cheap too

Just practising for my next sojourn to Spain in April...
can't wait, this weather here is doing my head in.

You're after a free working holiday ain't you?

 

[pirate]

Si Pedro, tienes razon como de costumbre...
(Yes, Pete, you are right as usual)
LOL!

 

[Dal]

Well I'd hoped this was a helpful forum but instead I see you're just the usual bunch of internet trolls. Well done, anyone can be brave when they hide behind a keyboard.
I'll be going ahead with the job anyway, you could have helped and maybe given me some pointers from your obviously vast array of knowledge but no, you had to be smart arses so I'll just do what I usually do and work it out for myself. I haven't blown anything up yet so maybe it'll go okay, maybe not, either way I know you couldn't give a ----.
Cheers...

 

[MJPD29]

It appears dal is rating us all dumb because we don't have a clue and he does... or is it the other way around

 

[Dal]

It appears dal is rating us all dumb because we don't have a clue and he does... or is it the other way around

Just a dumb rating for a dumb answer. The couple that at least tried to be a bit helpful were rated accordingly.

 

[Spoon]

Well I'd hoped this was a helpful forum but instead I see you're just the usual bunch of internet trolls. Well done, anyone can be brave when they hide behind a keyboard.
I'll be going ahead with the job anyway, you could have helped and maybe given me some pointers from your obviously vast array of knowledge but no, you had to be smart arses so I'll just do what I usually do and work it out for myself. I haven't blown anything up yet so maybe it'll go okay, maybe not, either way I know you couldn't give a ****.
Cheers...

Please read posts #8 & #9.. You got your answer back then mate.

 

[Dal]

Please read posts #8 & #9.. You got your answer back then mate.

I know and thank you, I really appreciate your help.

 

[camerabloke]

Lol. When it catches fire invite us all round for a BBQ

 

[Spoon]

I know and thank you, I really appreciate your help.

Let us know how you get on.. I'm curious as to what cable (e.g. SWA) is best, according to the Spanish regs and if a switches isolator is required.

 

[Pete999]

It appears dal is rating us all dumb because we don't have a clue and he does... or is it the other way around

Was thinking about an apt response to Dal's obvious "I know what I'm doing , they don't post" but thought "don't add fuel to the fire" but you nailed it right on.
People think Electrics are easy, whereas we all know it's not as black and white as Mr and Mrs Public think it is. Dal obviously thinks he knows best and was coming to us for advice he didn't expect, well Dal that's how it is, you have peeded off so many Forum members with your holier than thou attitude and got what you deserved, so go on report me, dumb me, I don't give one.

 

[Dal]

Let us know how you get on.. I'm curious as to what cable (e.g. SWA) is best, according to the Spanish regs and if a switches isolator is required.

I will, the distance from the meter array for all the apartments to my CU is further than the distance from the lower CU to the upper CU so I'm going to ask at the local suppliers if the same cable will be suitable, I'll ask about the isolator but plan to put one in anyway just not sure whether to position it downstairs (preferable so I can cut off upstairs easily) or whether it has to be adjacent to the upper CU.

I'll let you know! Cheers!

 

[Rpa07]

Well it’s not rocket science is it?
Or is it?

 

[Dal]

Was thinking about an apt response to Dal's obvious "I know what I'm doing , they don't post" but thought "don't add fuel to the fire" but you nailed it right on.
People think Electrics are easy, whereas we all know it's not as black and white as Mr and Mrs Public think it is. Dal obviously thinks he knows best and was coming to us for advice he didn't expect, well Dal that's how it is, you have peeded off so many Forum members with your holier than thou attitude and got what you deserved, so go on report me, dumb me, I don't give one.

I'm not reporting anyone, I don't care enough about your posts to take the time. As for "holier than thou attitude", well I think you have that arse about face.

 

[Rpa07]

Well it’s not rocket science is it?
Or is it?

 

[pirate]

Estupido!
Oh well, I've been called worse...and frankly I thought you got some good advice Dal. There is no reason to call us trolls hiding behind a keyboard. I suggested you get an electrician in because I actually do have some experience of Spanish electrics and their often weird ways...that doesn't make me dumb, it makes me concerned/friendly/helpful as are the others you have dumbed...maybe the humour just didn't get through to you.
I hope you achieve your aim with ease, and your connections work well and safely.

 

[Spoon]

In the UK, if the tails are longer than 3 meters then a fused isolator has to be fitted, close to the meter..

 

[camerabloke]

I'm not reporting anyone, I don't care enough about your posts to take the time. As for "holier than thou attitude", well I think you have that arse about face.

If you didn’t care ,why did you dumb us then

 

[Dal]

In the UK, if the tails are longer than 3 meters then a fused isolator has to be fitted, close to the meter..

Yes there are isolators directly above the meters (RCCB/RCD?), there are supplier's fuses before the meters (screw in ceramic types). In Spain the isolators must be accessible from outside the dwelling in all cases I believe.

 

[Pete999]

If you didn’t care ,why did you dumb us then

Don't go there Mate

 

[Spoon]

Yes there are isolators directly above the meters (RCCB/RCD?), there are supplier's fuses before the meters (screw in ceramic types). In Spain the isolators must be accessible from outside the dwelling in all cases I believe.

Do you have an isolator outside the dwelling for your ground floor apartment? Could you not tap into output of that instead of near the meter then?

 

[pirate]

FYI, I know of many apartments in Spain where the isolators are not accessible externally, and I think rules on this vary...also, many apartments have "skinny" electrical supplies, so running 2 off 1 might be problematic...I had to have mine upgraded just because I put in a new hob...
...and anywhere in a wall is a wiring zone, so who knows what you might unearth...literally.

 

[Dal]

can't see a problem with henley blocking the tails and splitting off to the other CU. spanish regs . may dictate what cabling you need to do this. e.g. SWA or sheathed tails.

So the Henley block just acts as a splitter? Meter tails in and then out with suitable cable to the 2 Consumer units (via an isolator for the upper)?

 

[Dal]

Do you have an isolator outside the dwelling for your ground floor apartment? Could you not tap into output of that instead of near the meter then?

I could but that would be a more convoluted route for the conduit/cable than straight up through the floor 2.5mtrs.

 

[Midwest]

I still think is best to have an electrician carry out this particular job. OP has no experience of such a task, is unfamiliar with Spanish Wiring Regulations, and apart from pirate, is getting advice from UK electricians who have no knowledge of requirements locally.

Course trying to offer safety advice, just gets you a 'dumb' it seems. Here's me third coming up, or is it 4; I've lost count.

 

[Dal]

FYI, I know of many apartments in Spain where the isolators are not accessible externally, and I think rules on this vary...also, many apartments have "skinny" electrical supplies, so running 2 off 1 might be problematic...I had to have mine upgraded just because I put in a new hob...
...and anywhere in a wall is a wiring zone, so who knows what you might unearth...literally.

All new builds/installations seem to require this now in my experience. This is Catalunya though which has many different rules and regs to Spain. I do know what you mean about how things are buried in the walls though, same with water pipes!

 

[telectrix]

I still think is best to have an electrician carry out this particular job. OP has no experience of such a task, is unfamiliar with Spanish Wiring Regulations, and apart from pirate, is getting advice from UK electricians who have no knowledge of requirements locally.

Course trying to offer safety advice, just gets you a 'dumb' it seems. Here's me third coming up, or is it 4; I've lost count.

i could make it 5 if you want, but i'm a nice person, even towards southerners when i've had beer.

 

[Midwest]

i could make it 5 if you want, but i'm a nice person, even towards southerners when i've had beer.

The sentiment is replicated, with consumption of incohol. However, tomorrow morning, all bets are off.

PS, guess our Spanish expats will give that a dumb, being's though that he's further south than I am to you.

 

[Dal]

After sitting back with a beer and having a think, something Spoon said made me realise that I'd over-complicated things. I've realised that the easiest solution is to just have the electrician connect the tails that went to the missing meter from upstairs to my meter. That way it preserves the original cable, CUs and isolators of both installations.

Cheers Spoon, I'd buy you a beer if I could!

 

[shaun1]

Just bear in mind that connecting the 2 consumer units together is a fairly simple task in its self, and if you get 2 wires in the right place, or even almost the right place, everything will work.

What you won't know until it happens, is how the installation will behave in the event of a fault. If the cable linking the 2 consumer units is not correctly protected from overload and fault current, then there is a risk of fire. If it's not suitably mechanically protected and in the wrong place, there is a risk of someone getting a Shock when they drill through it etc.... And if the supply isn't adequate it will keep tripping out/going off. There are also issues with the type of earthing and how and bonding conductors for the upstairs dweling are connected.

And whilst you may be aware of these downfalls, it probably won't be your property forever and you won't be the only user.

Getting that part right requires proper design based on the individual circumstances of the job. And people could spend a lot of their time working some of it out via the internet, but are often reluctant because that is how they make a living.

There are also a number of tests which should be carried out once the cable is installed, to ensure it's safe prior to energising, and even time served electricians may pick up on mistakes during this testing process.

These are some more of the reasons why you have been advised to seek a professional for this task.