Crimping or Soldering Flex cable

[wayne305]

Evening all, hoping someone can clear something up for me.

I was told today that all stranded flex cables need to be pin crimped or soldered before connections are made, eg, for a towel rail or small wall heater etc. He said the regs were altered in April 2012?

This is the first I've heard of this and just want to know if anyone can confirm this is true?

Cheers

Wayne

 

[davesparks]

The ends are required to be treated so that the individual strands do not get damaged.

I guess you could use pin crimps but these are normally used for reducing the physical size of a cable so that big cables can fit in little terminals.

You would normally use 'cord end' or 'boot lace' ferrules to protect the end of a flex.

You are not allowed to tin (solder) the ends as the soft solder can creep/cold flow and become loose on its own.
Solder should only be used when making a soldered connection.

 

[wayne305]

Cheers Dave

So he is right then? Do the regs actually state that the ends need to be treated or is it just good practice?

 

[Rockingit]

526.9 is the answer to your question.

 

[Darkwood]

If the connection is by way of a device designed for fine wire then no crimping needed but as the majority are in standard terminations this has been the case for a long time, the regs expanded on it in 2012 but has been the case for a long time.... If you ever buy a light drop etc the factory terminations are already crimped or heat sealed to comply.

Putting fine wire in standard connectors without crimping is a major contribution to the cause of many large fires in big complex and office blocks where many terminations of this nature exist where correct crimping has not taken place.

The Wago lever connector is an example where fine wire needs no crimping .

To further understand the regulation if you screw down on fine wire they are splayed open and ride up the side of the screw if not breaking because they are delicate given a reduced positive point of contact and leaving a large no of the cores loose effectively reducing the CCC at that point.

 

[Adam W]

The ends are required to be treated so that the individual strands do not get damaged.

I guess you could use pin crimps but these are normally used for reducing the physical size of a cable so that big cables can fit in little terminals.

You would normally use 'cord end' or 'boot lace' ferrules to protect the end of a flex.

You are not allowed to tin (solder) the ends as the soft solder can creep/cold flow and become loose on its own.
Solder should only be used when making a soldered connection.

:iagree:

 

[telectrix]

i agree with all the above posts.

 

[brucelee]

Me too and very good posts they were lol

 

[shanky887614]

bootlace is my preference for stranded.

a pair of 0.5-16mm crimpers are under £35

 

[telectrix]

they were even less before my wholesaler fitted a lock to the tool display cabinet. :6:

 

[shanky887614]

they were even less before my wholesaler fitted a lock to the tool display cabinet. :6:

why would i buy tools from my local wholsaler?

i get the companies discount and i still tell them to shove it quite often.

i pay less than half usually online or at a non electrical wholesaler

 

[Doomed]

I love China.

 

[PEG]

i too,am a big fan of any ceramic based hot beverage receptacle :bow:

 

[Rockingit]

As it happens, I'm in the market for a new bootlace crimper, so if anyone sees a deal going, do let me know!!

 

[shanky887614]

As it happens, I'm in the market for a new bootlace crimper, so if anyone sees a deal going, do let me know!!

what size?

these knipex crimpers do upto 16mm

 

[Rockingit]

Smalls, so .5 > 6mm

 

[shanky887614]

Smalls, so .5 > 6mm

they do that size

even rrp is cheap

 

[Rockingit]

Cheers, I'll take a look!

 

[shanky887614]

Cheers, I'll take a look!

knipex product code is 97 71 180

that will help if you want to shop around

 

[telectrix]

Crimp Tools Bootlace Ferrules Crimper Cord End Terminals Crimping 0.08-6.0mm² | eBay

 

[Adam W]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-62226-Ferrule-Crimping-Pliers/dp/B0002GUQSI
I don't see the point of spending a fortune on ferrule crimpers, not when you can do a similar job with a pair of pliers.
It's also yet another use for a hammer.

 

[davesparks]

I use the 97-72-180 as they have chunkier handles which means I can still use them even when the arthritis plays up. (28 and I've already got arthritis in both hands that means I cant grip thin handled tools like those pictured above!)

 

[edexlab]

I've had a disagreement with a bloke at work over crimping tool types
He says you should always use the ratchet type versus pliers and they should be the type that form a square crimp
rather than a round crimp

I'm of the opinion that unless calibrated crimps are required then either type is fine to use as long as the user is confident that it's made off correctly
I don't think the shape matters too much when using the smaller sizes a square terminal will compress a round shape ferrule somewhat anyway, but if the wire is a larger size into a closely matched terminal ie 16mm into a 16mm terminal I'd use the crimper shape dictated by the terminal.
Any thoughts opinions on this?

 

[shanky887614]

I've had a disagreement with a bloke at work over crimping tool types
He says you should always use the ratchet type versus pliers and they should be the type that form a square crimp
rather than a round crimp

I'm of the opinion that unless calibrated crimps are required then either type is fine to use as long as the user is confident that it's made off correctly
I don't think the shape matters too much when using the smaller sizes a square terminal will compress a round shape ferrule somewhat anyway, but if the wire is a larger size into a closely matched terminal ie 16mm into a 16mm terminal I'd use the crimper shape dictated by the terminal.
Any thoughts opinions on this?

i disagree.

with ferrules you can feel woth pliers if there tight.

with ratchet crimps there is no feedback at all, i know for a fact as i went around with pliers recrimping them because the previous guy thought they had crimped but they loosend that much they didnt crimp properly

 

[edexlab]

Btw I have the above knipex crimper and would definitely recommend it is a quality made to last tool which I think is good for the money

 

[edexlab]

Yes I have seen this also loose ferrules from old well used ratchet crimpers but the lad just assumed they were fine because they were this type of tool

 

[CockneyReject]

i disagree.

with ferrules you can feel woth pliers if there tight.

with ratchet crimps there is no feedback at all, i know for a fact as i went around with pliers recrimping them because the previous guy thought they had crimped but they loosend that much they didnt crimp properly

Ratchets everytime mate especially when your doing panels or lots of ends at once, no good just assuming they are tight always best to check, plus I got mine for freeeeeeeeee lol

 

[shanky887614]

Ratchets everytime mate especially when your doing panels or lots of ends at once, no good just assuming they are tight always best to check, plus I got mine for freeeeeeeeee lol

? honestly my hand crimpers are easier than the ck/knipex rachets mate uses

 

[edexlab]

I cannot see a problem with the plier type for most types of install
I know it's made off properly yet I'm always in doubt about the ratchet type due to the reasons I posted earlier
I own 2 ratchet crimpers both give the square shape and 2 of the plier type (round) I think the pliers give a better mechanical connection , never been able to pull one off easily but have managed to do so on ones done via ratchet crimpers
Just my opinion.

 

[Adam W]

I've had a disagreement with a bloke at work over crimping tool types
He says you should always use the ratchet type versus pliers and they should be the type that form a square crimp
rather than a round crimp

I'm of the opinion that unless calibrated crimps are required then either type is fine to use as long as the user is confident that it's made off correctly
I don't think the shape matters too much when using the smaller sizes a square terminal will compress a round shape ferrule somewhat anyway, but if the wire is a larger size into a closely matched terminal ie 16mm into a 16mm terminal I'd use the crimper shape dictated by the terminal.
Any thoughts opinions on this?

I agree with you. The reason being a through crimp is designed to hold two cables together, a ring crimp etc is designed to hold a cable onto a separate shape on the end of the cable to terminate it with so they need to offer a degree of tensile strength otherwise the cable will come off the crimp, but a ferrule simply goes around the stripped end of the cable, which goes right to the end of the connection; if it failed or weren't there at all the screw would still be tightening onto the core of the cable.