Dealing with the NON Paying client?

[1shortcircuit]

I know comments have been made when discussing this subject in the past but I've just been reading something completely unrelated and a thought popped into my mind:bulb2:

I'm sure there are members who know a great deal about the legallities regarding this subject so I was hoping for some feedback.

Firstly, I am not owed money by a client but I'm sure there will be a situation in the future so I'd like to try and be prepared.


Now obviously we cannot withold certification in order to get paid.

We cannot threaten to go in and remove OUR property as a result of non payment.

We cannot cut the tails or remove the fuse etc

BUT! What is stopping us having a clause in our contracts that states that the main switch will remain LOCKED OFF in the SAFE ISOLATION position until payment has been made? or perhaps locking off one RCD or specific circuits lol

It's only a thought, probably a valid reason as to why there is a law preventing us from doing this too but I'd be interested to see members views regarding this matter.

The thoughts going through my mind now are that this probably wouldn't reflect too well for business but not being paid doesn't either

Regards

1SC

 

[trev]

Even if this would be allowed, which I doubt it would be, there is nothing to stop the non payer from taking a hacksaw to the lock preventing the circuit/s/CU being turned on

 

[oldtimer]

Well its horses for courses in my mind as I do small electrical and alarm repairs I had one £90 job last year and they went bust so I wrote that off another was I got such a messing about on a job that I was told well I am not paying until.................. So I cut my losses but the sting in the tale was she gave me a stinker of a review. A lot of guys have contracts made up via term and conditions but that can come across as a bit intimidating so what do you do well first of all what is the value of the job ? ie £650 and then they hit you with another pile of work I would say as I have most of the work complete and I am a sole trader could I request you pay 75% of the initial job.
So it is how you approuch it you have to learn and read the signals such as "well look just get the extra work done and we can discuss it later" well the reply would be If you dont mind as a sole trader I cannot afford to be out with too much money wise so if you dont mind can you pay 75% and I will give you a quote for the extra work. This will reduce your risk so if you quote for another £200 so would are only loosing £300

Dont get yourself wound up about it like the guy who,s car runs into a ditch at night so he walks up the hill to the farmers house and he says to himself what if the farmers not in what if he wants paid what if he sets the dogs on me so he taps on the door and the farmers answers what can I do for you and the guy says see you, you can stick your tractor up your ars%

 

[trev]

I subbed for a guy for a day and a half a couple of weeks back, first he lost his phone charger and couldn't ring me then he smashed his phone and my number had disappeared off his sim card so couldn't ring me. I'd stuck notes through his door asking him to get in touch but he didn't see a need to get in touch with a mutual friend to get my number. Now he's saying I will not be paid until the job I was on for him pays up.
When I rang him last night he said he's got other work coming up that he wants me on, seems like dangling a carrot to keep me sweet to me. I feel like breaking his legs but I know this would be frowned upon.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Funny old game!

 

[dingledong]

hmm where in the regs does it say about not breaking legs

 

[trev]

It's in the regs the police use mate

 

[telectrix]

if you break a leg you will lose the r1 & r2 of your RFC.

 

[trev]

When I finally lose all patience, that point is not too far away, I'll be paying him a visit, not for tea and biccys

 

[colshaws]

Only break one leg, that way he can still limp to the bank to get your money

 

[Paul.M]

Erm, interesting topic, I must tread carefully on this one.

Earlier this year I was ripped off by another forum member (no names will be given so don't ask please, I promised admin that I play nicely). A very respectable member, professional, most people on here liked him but he did me over for £400+!!! I trusted him to the point where I bought materials for the job. Little did I know that his company had been issued a winding up notice by Companies House due to not sending them any paperwork but yet he still gave me a subby job knowing he couldn't pay me!

From now on I check the company out, credit check, Google search, trading addresses and home addresses before I pick up my toolbox.

My faith in the forum has been re-newed after working for/with a few members, great lads each one of them and I'm proud to call them friends (or boss). Steve, Alex, phill and a couple of others, thanks for the work, thanks for paying up on time every time. It's an honor to work with brilliant sparks.

 

[Guest112]

why cant you just not give them the cert untill you get paid, im not self employed so i dont deal with the money side of dealing with clients but id definately cost the customer more than they owed me somehow either smashing faceplates youve installed slashing tyres on their car or just rip out the work like these guys:-

Builder Demolishes His Work After Pay Dispute With Homeowner - YouTube

 

[1shortcircuit]

why cant you just not give them the cert untill you get paid, im not self employed so i dont deal with the money side of dealing with clients but id definately cost the customer more than they owed me somehow either smashing faceplates youve installed slashing tyres on their car or just rip out the work like these guys:-

Builder Demolishes His Work After Pay Dispute With Homeowner - YouTube

Because it says so in your terms and conditions with your Part P provider

 

[1shortcircuit]

Erm, interesting topic, I must tread carefully on this one.

Earlier this year I was ripped off by another forum member (no names will be given so don't ask please, I promised admin that I play nicely). A very respectable member, professional, most people on here liked him but he did me over for £400+!!! I trusted him to the point where I bought materials for the job. Little did I know that his company had been issued a winding up notice by Companies House due to not sending them any paperwork but yet he still gave me a subby job knowing he couldn't pay me!

From now on I check the company out, credit check, Google search, trading addresses and home addresses before I pick up my toolbox.

My faith in the forum has been re-newed after working for/with a few members, great lads each one of them and I'm proud to call them friends (or boss). Steve, Alex, phill and a couple of others, thanks for the work, thanks for paying up on time every time. It's an honor to work with brilliant sparks.

Wow, that's unbelieveable news but I don't doubt what you're saying in the slightest. It's hard to believe idiots will stoop so low so close to home

As for the checking out, I don't blame you but I do recall a thread I created where I got slated to bits because I stated very similar terms.

There was the fact that I am newly qualified but I always believe if you're going to involve others then you need to protect your own interests before anything else. Think of only number one when entering such agreements.

I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you Paul, you've always been one of my more preferred members:thumbsup

Regards

1SC

 

[Guest112]

Because it says so in your terms and conditions with your Part P provider

i dont think id care or anyone should about terms and conditions if someone owed money what are they going to do complain because they havent paid you??? exactly

 

[La Poste]

When I rang him last night he said he's got other work coming up that he wants me on, seems like dangling a carrot to keep me sweet to me.

This must be the oldest blag in the book.

I've heard it used so many times.

 

[mattmoo1974]

You can write what you like in T@C if there not going to pay there not going to pay!!!!
Ask for a % of the materails upfront and X amount after the first fix, To many cowboy builder programs have scared people to death..
It seems all the cowboy firms seem to get 20k upfront!
Explain your costs at the start IE 3k job 1500 parts, A good costumer will pay upfront(If you ve got the job thru word of mouth)
Losing your man hours is bitter but paying for the parts as well!!!!!

 

[Rockingit]

I always ask for 30% of the estimate value up front, that way at least you cover your materials if it all goes pete tong.

And I always supply the certificates etc to accompany their receipt of payment, not before.

 

[maddog130280]

why can't we hold certs until all monies are paid? legislation says we have to provide certs on completion, completetion doesn't take place until the contract is completed, which means its not completed until you get your money. as far as threatening to take materials back, your also entitled to do this, so long as you do not force entry, or cause unreasonable damage in retrieving your property. suppliers remove meters when payment hasn't been received, the only difference is that they can lawfully force entry.

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Simple procedure, customer doesn't pay - give them seven days then issue proceedings, they don't turn up you get judgement then either whack a charge on their house (which accrues interest at bank rate + 8%) or sell it on to a debt collector who will make their life hell

 

[La Poste]

I'm going through the small claims procedure at the moment seeking compensation from a firm of car clampers.

The procedure is simple but what I will advise is to get terms etc agreed at the outset of the job.
It will make your case at court a lot easier to win.

Once you win as the above poster states, you can make their life hell.

The only time this will not work is against a LTD company who can use and abuse the system with complete impunity.

 

[fuzzydunlop]

I'm going through the small claims procedure at the moment seeking compensation from a firm of car clampers.

The procedure is simple but what I will advise is to get terms etc agreed at the outset of the job.
It will make your case at court a lot easier to win.

Once you win as the above poster states, you can make their life hell.

The only time this will not work is against a LTD company who can use and abuse the system with complete impunity.

Depends on the status of the LTD company, a proper one will pay up eventually.

A fly by night merchant who sets them up for whatever scam he has in mind won't

 

[ruskie]

Try debt recovery companies.. There are a few good ones, legal.. They wont charge you to recover the debt.. But add their fees onto non payer.. Ill try and remember the name!

 

[La Poste]

A fly by night merchant who sets them up for whatever scam he has in mind won't

They're the ones I am talking about.
They can use and abuse the law without any comebacks if they know the system.

Whenever I see so and so builders LTD alarm bells always ring inside my head.

 

[ruskie]

Try debt recovery companies.. There are a few good ones, legal.. They wont charge you to recover the debt.. But add their fees onto non payer.. Ill try and remember the name!

 

[i=p/u]

as moo says , if its thru word of mouth, there normaly ok customers and will sort you out upfront for materials... i never pay for materials.. never.. i agree with 30% upfront 30% first fix 40% completion...... no certs till pay not that they ask for them in this neck of woods

 

[fuzzydunlop]

They're the ones I am talking about.
They can use and abuse the law without any comebacks if they know the system.

Whenever I see so and so builders LTD alarm bells always ring inside my head.

You can enforce judgement just takes more time and effort than the debt is usually worth, which is why they do it. But, if you do catch them it's worth it

First rule on taking on any job is google search the clients name/email address/home address (you'll be surprised the amount of info you can find)

Then get a % of payment up front (even friends and family one rule for all) and have water tight T&C's

 

[La Poste]

I would just like to add that the clamping company that clamped me is a LTD company and has over 50 CCJ's and is still operating.

After a while they will morph into a new company and all debts will be written off.

LTD companies, beware of them people.

 

[Cyberprog]

I would just like to add that the clamping company that clamped me is a LTD company and has over 50 CCJ's and is still operating.

After a while they will morph into a new company and all debts will be written off.

LTD companies, beware of them people.

That's why you don't just sue the clampers, you sue the people they are acting for - the landowner, who crucially, own an asset, the land.

 

[La Poste]

That's why you don't just sue the clampers, you sue the people they are acting for - the landowner, who crucially, own an asset, the land.

Yes I agree but this was just an illustration.

When it comes to builders what you gonna do?

They are directors of their LTD companies and hence not liable to their LTD companies debts.

You cannot put a claim on their house, you can only go after the assets of their company and usually their company has no assets.

It's the biggest scam ever.

Talk about the law protecting the rich, Jesus this is taking the ----