Thatched wiring - ways to make safer

[Dustydazzler]

I would rewire it all in 4mm SWA , all metal tie wrapped to some nice Galv Tray strutted to the roof joists

 

[pc1966]

I would rewire it all in 4mm SWA , all metal tie wrapped to some nice Galv Tray strutted to the roof joists

Why 4mm?

SWA would work, but to me conduit and singles would be far easier for various loops or two-way switches, etc. Possibly less work even with the conlok style as you won't have a dozen or so cable glands to accessories and/or junction boxes in the roof space.

Any runs impractical to do in metal conduit could be in flexible, or maybe a run or SWA as needed (potentially 7 core, etc, for many circuits so long as off one breaker).

 

[Dustydazzler]

Why 4mm?

...cause I got a load of it in the shed that needs using up

 

[davesparks]

Only has to be disconnected one end and a draw cord pulled through then the existing T&E can easily be terminated in a standard stuffing gland, not rocket science although some on here think it is.

But how are you terminating the floppy conduit at each end, or are you proposing to just leave the sharp cut end of the steel loose? It needs to be connected onto a backbox of some sort with a proper gland to secure it and protect the cable from the sharp edges.

If the conduit is left loose and not secured to backboxes then it will inevitably leave a bit of cable exposed for the rodents to nibble on.

The floppy conduit is unlikely to be able to take the exact same route as the existing cables so will inevitably result in the cables being too short.

 

[davesparks]

I have thought this through, it is only lighting cables that are needing protection, these will be run from rose too rose so easily disconnected and pulled back and through a flexible conduit

I hadn't realised you've visited the house in question and know exactly how the circuit is wired and how the cables have been run.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Of course I haven't visited the house, but do live an equally old property, these are just ideas and suggestions, no else seems eager to have a punt on a solution, perhaps it's because they know that it will bring out the Harry Enfield effect in most others.

 

[davesparks]

no else seems eager to have a punt on a solution,

I've already made my suggestion of finding the cause of the 2.5megohm reading rather than rewiring and entire circuit for the sake of what could be a faulty lampholder.

 

[Mike Johnson]

That does not get over the Rodent problem, which is what this thread is about.

 

[Mick-J]

You're both right. & I appreciate the replies.

We could do with finding the cause of the low reading in the first instance.....which might give us some grace for a period before figuring out a med-long term solution.

To that end I do plan to gird my loins, pull on my worst clothing and have a careful creep around the attic.....just need a damp day and some enthusiasm for getting up the ladder The former should happen this week....

The longer term solution must involve removing/solving the rodent issue.
In my mind, that would ideally mean removing all wires from the attic....BUT given the bathroom has a pull-cord ceiling light, that might not be possible. Or involve plenty of in-room conduit perhaps

Our sparky is a busy fella (and we are not around a lot)...plus he is aware that once he does any work, he would need to take it all to current regs......so who fancies a trip to the IOW to cure the problem? Free holiday plus some payment


He did explain how to run tests using a Megger meter in order to perhaps monitor things ourselves a bit. Hopefully that will give us more information!
What we don't know is whether the low resistance is something that has been getting worse, or indeed if it has been bad for 5-20 years. Defo worth knowing that.....

cheers

 

[Avo Mk8]

A couple of other options?

https://www.techflex.co.uk/heavy-duty/rodent-resistant-sleeving

Anti-Rodent Electrical Tape - ATV City

Anti-Rodent Electrical Tape (20m) An easy to use, effective solution for protection of cables, wires, plumbing pipes, gas pipes & ducts against rodent damage! Teraokatape is embedded with capsules containing Capsicum which are extremely disliked by rats and mice. Simply wrap the tape around wire...

atvcity.co.uk

 

[pc1966]

A couple of other options?

The sleeving has all of the other issues of basically having to disconnect and reconnect cables, so not far off effort to rewire.

However, the tape might be an idea, no idea how much it would cost to cover all of the cables though - works out at around £1/m but not sure tape length in practice to cable covered, etc.

 

[Avo Mk8]

The sleeving has all of the other issues of basically having to disconnect and reconnect cables, so not far off effort to rewire.

However, the tape might be an idea, no idea how much it would cost to cover all of the cables though - works out at around £1/m but not sure tape length in practice to cable covered, etc.

The sleeving I was originally looking for was the 'self closing' type, but I drew a blank.

But I've just found the product below, which overcomes the dis/re-connect problem. I suspect it may not be quite as effective as I don't think it has a dissuasive chemical component.

Rodent repellent self-closing sleeving Twist-In-RR-13 (170-01161)

170-01161

www.hellermanntyton.com

 

[nicebutdim]

But I've just found the product below, which overcomes the dis/re-connect problem. I suspect it may not be quite as effective as I don't think it has a dissuasive chemical component.

Blurb states "optimal protection from rodents and martens". Has to be pretty tough as the latter can eat through almost anything.

 

[Rockingit]

Ermmm….. surely all this talk of wraps and covers is irrelevant when the IR readings are saying it all needs replacing anyway??

 

[nicebutdim]

Ermmm….. surely all this talk of wraps and covers is irrelevant when the IR readings are saying it all needs replacing anyway??

OP expressed concerns about rodents. Quite likely they wouldn't want new cables chewed, if it turns out the cables need to be replaced. For now we know there has been a poor IR reading, but we don't know for certain that cables are the issue.

 

[littlespark]

Blurb states "optimal protection from rodents and martens". Has to be pretty tough as the latter can eat through almost anything.

Why did I read “Martians” there?

As if rodents weren’t enough….

 

[pc1966]

Blurb states "optimal protection from rodents and martens". Has to be pretty tough as the latter can eat through almost anything.

I had to look up what a marten is, something new every day!

I doubt it stops the chewing as such, probably more makes it taste horrible to them.

 

[sparksfly]

Personally I would go for flexi conduit with metal boxes in thatch.
You could replace sections of wiring over time, metal junction box over light position on noggins. There maybe parts of the wiring with internal damage. SWA could work except for urine damage once stripped.
Inspect the wiring every year or so or/and have an electrician test upstairs light circuit only periodically to cut costs.
I passed a thatched EICR recently t/e everywhere, no damage in the last 20 years, another non-thatched had severe rodent damage in a small area 8x heavy duty jcn boxes later bits of cable, after squirrel access blocked. If it were regular occurrence I would go down the flexi steel route. BTW cables were stripped completely in places, no tripping, no dead rodents... a builder noticed it after working up there.... as someone else said 2 MΩ is still a pass but a visual is just as important.

 

[Mick-J]

Thanks @sparksfly
I had a brief look yesterday (before realising a dust mask might make sense).
All wires looked pretty tidy.
No signs of chewing visible.
One junction box I could see - no signs of any activity.
I will get back up later and do a more thorough check. I feel like a watching brief might become an annual activity for us.

Be nicer to get the safety check done this end of the season so we know we can let it next season, but our Ts&Cs mean we can disappoint people by cancelling if we absolutely have to (fingers crossed we don't). Our sparky wasn't so keen to repeat the tests/certificate so close to the last one

Cheers all.

 

[pc1966]

If the cable looks clean, dry, and not munched then dirt or water in junction boxes is the next obvious thing to look for that does not involve ant special skills or test equipment. Just some care and making sure the power is off first.

A simple voltage tester might be a good investment if you are likely to poke around things. I have one of these, but you can get a range of them from Toolstation or Screwfix as well:

VT12 Voltage / Continuity Tester

Excellent value LED voltage and continuity tester

www.cef.co.uk