Earthing pme

[Sammyhop]

I have just done my first mains change over and the supplier installed pme but did not provide an earth. There is an earth terminal on the cut out but there is no way of getting a cable in to it. Not sure what I should do. Any ideas?

 

[jamesBoater]

Have u got a picture?

 

[stidge]

Get the supplier back to sort it !

 

[driverman]

Although PME has been supplied by the DNO, depending what arrangement you had with them when asking for the work to be done, you may have to go to your supplier and request a PME connection ( more cost). If series 7 cut out...plastic cover have pre- marked holes which are drilled out for the Earthing conductor. Electricians are not supposed to drill them out. Others here may advise you a lot better than me, as I've been out of the game too long.

 

[Sammyhop]

I haven't got a picture but there is a small section on the side that you could get a cable through if it was drilled out. I didn't want to do drill it as I was pretty sure I'm not allowed to. Would there be no other way of earthing it without calling the suppliers back out

 

[Lou7]

If you can,remove the fuse, this should allow you to remove the neutral cover.

 

[driverman]

Officially not.....Did you ask for PME to be done? If so get them back to complete.

 

[Engineer54]

What was the earthing system before the DNO changed the service head?? If their was a an existing earth point then the DNO are duty bound to maintain that earth provision.

When you say there is an earth terminal on the cut-out, are you talking about a fixed external earth terminal?? If so, this will be internally connected to the cut-out ''N'' block. I only ask, because this has come up before, where the OP didn't realise this....

 

[Sammyhop]

They said they were supplying pme, yeah the earthing terminal shared with the neutral block. I can see that there is the opportunity to but earth wires in the side of this terminal but the outer plastic casing has no pre drilled holes in it

 

[Engineer54]

I'm not really sure what your saying here?? Is there an earth terminal block on the exterior of this cut-out or not?? If there is, that is your PME earth connection. It'll be internally connected to the neutral block via a sliding brass link bar.

 

[Sammyhop]

The earthing block is inside the cut out. But there are no holes in the exterior plastic casing to get a cable in to the earthing terminal

 

[terminator]

The DNO is supposed to connect that - not you. They sometimes won't connect if they are not happy that everthing comply with the requirements for having pme. i.e. No main bonding in place or wrong size. Or no 16mm main eathing conductor into MET ready for them to connect.

 

[Outspoken]

Call back the DNO and get them to confirm that;

1. The supplied service cut-out is actually connected to a PME service (Just because it's a PME head does not mean a PME connection is present)
2. The date they will return and comply with the Law and the regulations by providing an adequate earthing point for the installation or provide you with written confirmation that have supplied an underground TT system you need to Rod..

Without pictures it is virtually impossible for anyone to really give you a definitive answer...Haven't you got a smart phone?

 

[Guest55]

i'd have had that cut-out apart before you could blink.

* awaits gasps of horror and worried hand-wringing.
;-)

 

[telectrix]

did DNO also forget to seal the fuse?

 

[rocker]

Oh my God, seriously?

Slide the front off the 'neutral' side of the head, by the main fuse.

You will notice on the top of the head, next to where the neutral goes in, there is a little knock out. Knock it out.

Stick your cheese and onion in. You will probably need a hex hey to do up the terminals.

PME doesn't have a seperate terminal for earth, hence Terra Neutral Combined S​eperate

 

[rocker]

Amazed at what some people on here don't know, and I'm not just talking about the OP.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I have just done my first mains change over and the supplier installed pme but did not provide an earth. There is an earth terminal on the cut out but there is no way of getting a cable in to it. Not sure what I should do. Any ideas?

So how have you provided earthing to your new CU...or is it not yet in service? And what was the earthing to the previous CU?

 

[Knobhead]

Amazed at what some people on here don't know, and I'm not just talking about the OP.

What’s even worse are people that make assumptions without the full facts.

Do we know what the supply is? Nothing the OP has said indicates a definitive earthing category.
The same head can be used for TT which would account for NO EARTH PROVIDED!

 

[onions1066]

If it definately is a PME just knock them out and connect it up, you could of done it in the time it's took me to write this. I'm sure the DNO would not be too happy coming back to knock the knock out for you.

 

[Outspoken]

Oh my God, seriously?

Slide the front off the 'neutral' side of the head, by the main fuse.

You will notice on the top of the head, next to where the neutral goes in, there is a little knock out. Knock it out.

Stick your cheese and onion in. You will probably need a hex hey to do up the terminals.

PME doesn't have a seperate terminal for earth, hence Terra Neutral Combined S​eperate

That is all well and good and likely 100% correct (assuming they actually installed a PME service), BUT you do realise it is ILLEGAL to interfere with the service head unless your employed or given permission by the owner of that service.

It does nto matter what you personally do or what anyone would actually do, advocating breaking the law on a public forum should never be done or excused.

 

[onions1066]

What is illegal about knocking out the plastic covering the terminals. The is no need to remove the bomb so I don't understand the problem

 

[rocker]

That is all well and good and likely 100% correct (assuming they actually installed a PME service), BUT you do realise it is ILLEGAL to interfere with the service head unless your employed or given permission by the owner of that service.

It does nto matter what you personally do or what anyone would actually do, advocating breaking the law on a public forum should never be done or excused.

It is not allowed by the DNOs (not illegal) to remove any part of the service head or metering service which has been sealed. This part of a PME service head is fully accessible and unsealed, and I reckon it'd probably be illegal for the DNO to seal up the protective earthing terminal and tell people they aren't allowed to touch it. Ergo, surely, if it was sealed and not allowed to be tampered with, the DNO would have to install an external MET like some of them used to when the sweated the earth onto the TNS armour.

The OP said at first that the DNO had installed a PME supply (the thread is named 'earthing PME') but didn't provide any means to put the yellow and green cable in the little box. It seems that, because he hasn't had express instructions on what to do, presumably because he hasn't experienced this on whatever kind of apprenticeship or course he's completed, he was worried about what-goes-where, which NOBODY gave him the answer to, instead doing the usual thing of this forum and answering questions that aren't asked, probably getting him or his customer a nice big DNO call out fee in the process. And of course the usual scaremongering 'ooh if you touch the DNOs stuff they will come out of the wall and take you to the hell dimension off of the film Hellraiser'.

 

[rocker]

And Tony, if you bother to read what he's said (as you accuse me of not doing), you would quickly realise that his phrase 'no earth provided' does not mean there is no measurable earth, but that the DNO haven't connected a bit of 16mm cable to the MET for our friend to stick into a consumer unit, and that the measurable earth is inside the little grey box that he's too afraid to touch because of everyone on this site!

 

[Rockingit]

In my experience, if you've got your tails and MET all ready to go then when the DNO come they'll stick them in, if not they fully expect you to do it afterwards and often they'll leave a set of seals to re-seal when you do.

Exception to that was a jumped up clipboard waver from EDF who were fitting meters only to some new builds and was insisting that they had to fit tails due to the meter front also being sealed which therefore meant he was insisting that the whole install was signed off as it would be them energizing it. Plank.

I also saw a place the other day where a BG electrician had seen fit to connect on to the head assuming it was a PME...and it wasn't.

 

[Outspoken]

It is not allowed by the DNOs (not illegal) to remove any part of the service head or metering service which has been sealed.

Sorry, but on this you are 100% wrong. It is ILLEGAL. Just because they do not prosecute because the hassle costs them more than the fine you would get, does not make it legal. In theory, and as far as I know it has never happened, you can not only be charged with an Electrical Supply Interference prosecution, but potentially "attempted abstraction of Electricity" if they so choose, not to mention criminal damage.

Now I appreciate we all stand more change of being hit on the head by a solid Gold meteorite and surviving than we would of being prosecuted or even reported, but the fact is advocating that someone does something illegal on a public forum should never be done, regardless of the situation.

He has paid the DNO for a service, it is for them to provide it as per the regulations demand and not for one of us to start doing part of their job for them, or we may as well start digging up the street and start jointing and pulling in our own services!!

 

[rocker]

Okay okay, I'll concede it's illegal for the sake of argument, although if they tried to prosecute me I don't think they'd get very far in court.

HOWEVER

As I have said, tampering with SEALED parts of a service head or metering equipment is not allowed/illegal/whatever, opening the neutral/earth side of a PME head is NOT illegal, and knocking out the inlet and front 2 screw knockouts is definitely not illegal or discouraged.... as I've said if it was it would prevent proper access to the main protective conductor, which would or at least should be illegal.

 

[Knobhead]

If the DNO hasn’t provided the earth it may not be suitable for PME. Only the DNO can confirm this. Where is the problem in contacting them? It’s a recent install so they should know.

You can talk until your blue in the face, without definitive information it’s a waste of time. To encourage someone to just connect it themselves is sheer folly.

 

[rocker]

'..... and the supplier installed pme....' in the first sentence posted.

PME has been installed.

The bloke doesn't know where to connect to. That is the question that has been asked.

There's nothing wrong with phoning up the DNO to find out if you're not sure, but this guy is sure, he knows it's PME, he just doesn't know how to hook it up.

The issue is not whether you should ring the DNO or not, the issue is you lot are making problems that aren't there. Just either answer the damn question or move on. That is the point I have been trying to make.

 

[BoredSparky]

You need to pull the service fuse (after cutting the seals) in order to loosen the screw holding the neutral/earth cover in place, no other way to gain access to the terminals