Earthing pme

Discuss Earthing pme in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

S

Sammyhop

I have just done my first mains change over and the supplier installed pme but did not provide an earth. There is an earth terminal on the cut out but there is no way of getting a cable in to it. Not sure what I should do. Any ideas?
 
Although PME has been supplied by the DNO, depending what arrangement you had with them when asking for the work to be done, you may have to go to your supplier and request a PME connection ( more cost). If series 7 cut out...plastic cover have pre- marked holes which are drilled out for the Earthing conductor. Electricians are not supposed to drill them out. Others here may advise you a lot better than me, as I've been out of the game too long.
 
I haven't got a picture but there is a small section on the side that you could get a cable through if it was drilled out. I didn't want to do drill it as I was pretty sure I'm not allowed to. Would there be no other way of earthing it without calling the suppliers back out
 
What was the earthing system before the DNO changed the service head?? If their was a an existing earth point then the DNO are duty bound to maintain that earth provision.

When you say there is an earth terminal on the cut-out, are you talking about a fixed external earth terminal?? If so, this will be internally connected to the cut-out ''N'' block. I only ask, because this has come up before, where the OP didn't realise this....
 
They said they were supplying pme, yeah the earthing terminal shared with the neutral block. I can see that there is the opportunity to but earth wires in the side of this terminal but the outer plastic casing has no pre drilled holes in it
 
I'm not really sure what your saying here?? Is there an earth terminal block on the exterior of this cut-out or not?? If there is, that is your PME earth connection. It'll be internally connected to the neutral block via a sliding brass link bar.
 
The earthing block is inside the cut out. But there are no holes in the exterior plastic casing to get a cable in to the earthing terminal
 
The DNO is supposed to connect that - not you. They sometimes won't connect if they are not happy that everthing comply with the requirements for having pme. i.e. No main bonding in place or wrong size. Or no 16mm main eathing conductor into MET ready for them to connect.
 
Call back the DNO and get them to confirm that;


  1. The supplied service cut-out is actually connected to a PME service (Just because it's a PME head does not mean a PME connection is present)
  2. The date they will return and comply with the Law and the regulations by providing an adequate earthing point for the installation or provide you with written confirmation that have supplied an underground TT system you need to Rod..

Without pictures it is virtually impossible for anyone to really give you a definitive answer...Haven't you got a smart phone?
 
Oh my God, seriously?

Slide the front off the 'neutral' side of the head, by the main fuse.

You will notice on the top of the head, next to where the neutral goes in, there is a little knock out. Knock it out.

Stick your cheese and onion in. You will probably need a hex hey to do up the terminals.

PME doesn't have a seperate terminal for earth, hence Terra Neutral Combined S​eperate
 
Sammyhop said:
I have just done my first mains change over and the supplier installed pme but did not provide an earth. There is an earth terminal on the cut out but there is no way of getting a cable in to it. Not sure what I should do. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

So how have you provided earthing to your new CU...or is it not yet in service? And what was the earthing to the previous CU?
 
rocker said:
Amazed at what some people on here don't know, and I'm not just talking about the OP.
Click to expand...

What’s even worse are people that make assumptions without the full facts.

Do we know what the supply is? Nothing the OP has said indicates a definitive earthing category.
The same head can be used for TT which would account for NO EARTH PROVIDED!
 
If it definately is a PME just knock them out and connect it up, you could of done it in the time it's took me to write this. I'm sure the DNO would not be too happy coming back to knock the knock out for you.
 
rocker said:
Oh my God, seriously?

Slide the front off the 'neutral' side of the head, by the main fuse.

You will notice on the top of the head, next to where the neutral goes in, there is a little knock out. Knock it out.

Stick your cheese and onion in. You will probably need a hex hey to do up the terminals.

PME doesn't have a seperate terminal for earth, hence Terra Neutral Combined S​eperate
Click to expand...

That is all well and good and likely 100% correct (assuming they actually installed a PME service), BUT you do realise it is ILLEGAL to interfere with the service head unless your employed or given permission by the owner of that service.

It does nto matter what you personally do or what anyone would actually do, advocating breaking the law on a public forum should never be done or excused.
 
Outspoken said:
That is all well and good and likely 100% correct (assuming they actually installed a PME service), BUT you do realise it is ILLEGAL to interfere with the service head unless your employed or given permission by the owner of that service.

It does nto matter what you personally do or what anyone would actually do, advocating breaking the law on a public forum should never be done or excused.
Click to expand...

It is not allowed by the DNOs (not illegal) to remove any part of the service head or metering service which has been sealed. This part of a PME service head is fully accessible and unsealed, and I reckon it'd probably be illegal for the DNO to seal up the protective earthing terminal and tell people they aren't allowed to touch it. Ergo, surely, if it was sealed and not allowed to be tampered with, the DNO would have to install an external MET like some of them used to when the sweated the earth onto the TNS armour.

The OP said at first that the DNO had installed a PME supply (the thread is named 'earthing PME') but didn't provide any means to put the yellow and green cable in the little box. It seems that, because he hasn't had express instructions on what to do, presumably because he hasn't experienced this on whatever kind of apprenticeship or course he's completed, he was worried about what-goes-where, which NOBODY gave him the answer to, instead doing the usual thing of this forum and answering questions that aren't asked, probably getting him or his customer a nice big DNO call out fee in the process. And of course the usual scaremongering 'ooh if you touch the DNOs stuff they will come out of the wall and take you to the hell dimension off of the film Hellraiser'.
 
And Tony, if you bother to read what he's said (as you accuse me of not doing), you would quickly realise that his phrase 'no earth provided' does not mean there is no measurable earth, but that the DNO haven't connected a bit of 16mm cable to the MET for our friend to stick into a consumer unit, and that the measurable earth is inside the little grey box that he's too afraid to touch because of everyone on this site!
 
In my experience, if you've got your tails and MET all ready to go then when the DNO come they'll stick them in, if not they fully expect you to do it afterwards and often they'll leave a set of seals to re-seal when you do.

Exception to that was a jumped up clipboard waver from EDF who were fitting meters only to some new builds and was insisting that they had to fit tails due to the meter front also being sealed which therefore meant he was insisting that the whole install was signed off as it would be them energizing it. Plank.

I also saw a place the other day where a BG electrician had seen fit to connect on to the head assuming it was a PME...and it wasn't.
 
rocker said:
It is not allowed by the DNOs (not illegal) to remove any part of the service head or metering service which has been sealed.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but on this you are 100% wrong. It is ILLEGAL. Just because they do not prosecute because the hassle costs them more than the fine you would get, does not make it legal. In theory, and as far as I know it has never happened, you can not only be charged with an Electrical Supply Interference prosecution, but potentially "attempted abstraction of Electricity" if they so choose, not to mention criminal damage.

Now I appreciate we all stand more change of being hit on the head by a solid Gold meteorite and surviving than we would of being prosecuted or even reported, but the fact is advocating that someone does something illegal on a public forum should never be done, regardless of the situation.

He has paid the DNO for a service, it is for them to provide it as per the regulations demand and not for one of us to start doing part of their job for them, or we may as well start digging up the street and start jointing and pulling in our own services!!
 
Okay okay, I'll concede it's illegal for the sake of argument, although if they tried to prosecute me I don't think they'd get very far in court.

HOWEVER

As I have said, tampering with SEALED parts of a service head or metering equipment is not allowed/illegal/whatever, opening the neutral/earth side of a PME head is NOT illegal, and knocking out the inlet and front 2 screw knockouts is definitely not illegal or discouraged.... as I've said if it was it would prevent proper access to the main protective conductor, which would or at least should be illegal.
 
If the DNO hasn’t provided the earth it may not be suitable for PME. Only the DNO can confirm this. Where is the problem in contacting them? It’s a recent install so they should know.

You can talk until your blue in the face, without definitive information it’s a waste of time. To encourage someone to just connect it themselves is sheer folly.
 
'..... and the supplier installed pme....' in the first sentence posted.

PME has been installed.

The bloke doesn't know where to connect to. That is the question that has been asked.

There's nothing wrong with phoning up the DNO to find out if you're not sure, but this guy is sure, he knows it's PME, he just doesn't know how to hook it up.

The issue is not whether you should ring the DNO or not, the issue is you lot are making problems that aren't there. Just either answer the damn question or move on. That is the point I have been trying to make.
 
Not on the new style PME heads you don't, and that's what he's describing. But it doesn't matter anyway because there are knockouts for cable access and for screw tightening.
 
So Rocker, if I said all the crocodiles in the swamp are friendly, would you believe me?

You’re a bloody fool if you did!

How many more times, get the DNO to confirm and put right.
 
as post #31, you have to pull the fuse to release the cover over the N and E terminals, so it's pull it and face the possible consequences or get DNO to fit an earth tail.
 
Hi Tel don't know if you had them back in the 1920s but the new (light grey) heads don't require removal of the service fuse for access to the neutral/earth terminals, you can just slide them open wioth a bit of jiggery pokery, no screws included. It doesn't matter anyway, though, because you have one knock out in the top for your cable to go into, and two knock outs in the front to tighten your screws. I tend to slide the front off, though, because you can terminate into 5/screws, just to make sure it's still standing after a nuclear attack!

PS I was joking about the 1920s. I realise you're more of a 40's guy lol
 
I note we haven’t had any input from the OP regarding confirmation.

The alligators have probably eaten him because he didn’t eer on the side of caution.
 
Wow don't some people get tetchy over simple things. I thought sparkies were supposed to stick together and fight the overpaid, underworked gas geezers. Surely a visual on the Neutral Earth strap would confirm PME or just a good old fashioned Earth Loop Test ?? It all comes down to morals, either order some seals and pliers or get confirmation. (sometimes depends on your Boss too) Life's too short to worry about trivia !
 
The light grey cut outs being mentioned here are series 7 cut outs, in my experience working for a DNO previously, S7 cut outs were used where the supply was intended to be TNCS, however if the DNO has not put a PME label on the cutout, then it cannot be and must not be assumed to be TNCS, as there are reasons they haven't done it, and as the S7 comes with a pme sticker it hasn't been missed off because they didn't have one.
Only confirmation from western power or similar will confirm supply type.
if the supply is TNCS, then on the right hand side you can knock through the blank allowing connection and drill a couple of small holes in the front to access the screws.
the neutral cover shouldn't be waggled out with jiggery pokery, as it is supposed to be held in with a screw, behind the main fuse
 
The cut out does have a pme sticker on and has the knockouts on the front and side. Am I allowed to knock these out and install a earth cable or do they need to be called out again to do it themselves. Please advise as I'm still not sure
 
What aren't you sure about?? Whether to have you're arse covered by calling the DNO to complete the work, or to leave yourself exposed, if something goes wrong when you interfere with the DNO's sealed property and making a PME earthing connection??
 
Not sure if I can drill the knockouts myself and install the earth wire, or get the DNO out to do it as I imagine that would cost the customer again
 
I want to see a picture of the "NEW" Service heads that dosent need the Fuse removed so the screw can be undone to acsess the neutral/earth block. Ive never seen one but someone here is pretty sure they exist.... please post a picture
 
The only series 7 I've come across, have the MEC coming from the bottom of the head next to the N tail - and you have to pull the main fuse to access the connector. And you would be daft in my opinion to try to drill holes or interfere with it - CALL the DNO!
 

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