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Discuss EIC issue................................ in the Electrical Work Up For Grabs area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hello. Am a competent electrician - been taught by qualified electricians, but have no qualifications myself. I will be doing a complete rewire for a friend in Dunstable/Luton area and was wondering if it was more worthwhile to get a NICEIC/equivalent rated electrician in to produce an EIC or to get in LABC. I have an mft and can do all the tests etc but obviously would prefer a NIC guy to sign it off. Would someone do this for me?? and what sort of price.
 
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MFS Electrical

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
You’d be lucky be better getting a spark in a scheme to help you with the job. Would you sign off something someone else had done?
I’m really sorry but how can you class yourself as competent a if your competence has never been assessed (not saying your not competent btw)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Yes I can totally agree with you. There is a difference between a DIYer and a competent unqualified person. Price is the main issue why im doing it and not getting a spark in the scheme in.
 
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  • #5
well they seem happy to come and do it but could charge up to £700 and was wondering if a spark could test and sign off for cheaper - i know of it being done before
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
Search this forum. This question gets asked everyday. Here's one from a member asking about his first assessment;

Stroma assessment coming up. - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/stroma-assessment-coming-up.172236/
 
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  • #7
I agree - but im not really asking whether it can be done, I am asking whether electricians are ready to do this sort of thing
 
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  • #9
Ok interesting. Do you think you could give me some reasons why you wouldnt?
 

MFS Electrical

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Ok interesting. Do you think you could give me some reasons why you wouldnt?
If you read what is required for an EIC the certifier must have either constructed the installation or been present to ensure compliance signing it off would be misleading at best and at worst would mean taking the derry should something go wrong.... I’ve seen enough rough stuff done by so called professional electricians that have quals and are members of schemes to put me off ever signing off anyone else’s work
 
This is not a dig at you personally so please don’t take it that way. Most sparks have seen some real crap work done by alleged competent qualified electricians let alone unqualified ones.
So imagine something goes pear shaped later, in a court of law the judge would crucify a qualified accredited spark for passing someone else work who is not in anyway qualified.
Not many would sign that off without physically seeing all cables, connections, joins cpc etc etc and I do not just mean the cables that pop out the wall I mean the cables in the wall as well.
Whilst I sympathise with you, acreditation is not easy to get and costs a spark a lot of time, money and effort why would he risk his to enable a non qualified person to carry out work they are not qualified to do.
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
I dunno, it happens all the time with large, even small companies.

Somebody at the company designs it and signs. Some of the companies employees install it, including subbies, QS will sign for that without even turning up. Then somebody will test it, somebody back in the office inputs the results. Might even sign for it :)
 

mhar

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Arms
This scenario is what the 3rd Party notification scheme is for.
Contact Stroma or Napit who will inform you which of their members local to you are authorised under the scheme.
You will meet, agree the design, have the work monitored and then tested and notified at the end achieving full part P compliance
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
I think OP is considering basing his business model, on someone else signing for inspection & testing, and notification.
I don’t think using the third party scheme would be a financially viable method?
 

mhar

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Arms
The op suggests a one off event, a single rewire. I did not read this as a basis for his business model
 

Baddegg

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Arms
Supporter
Esteemed
I take these posts as........if somebody is at a stage where they are considering and or have started rewiring an entire house they know a little about electrical installation, at least in a domestic setting, which means they already know the answer to they question but are just looking for a cheap way out......or am I being cynical ;)
 

Wilko

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Arms
Esteemed
Possibly both cynical and correct :) .
 
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  • #19
Well to explain the situation - it is definitely not to base a business model on - if i were to set up as a domestic electrician then of course i would become registered and qualified etc etc... dont worry I do know and have seen the dangers of bad electrics. This 3rd party notification scheme seems to be perhaps what I am looking for - could anybody explain in any more detail as to what this is?
And btw I havent got the time to waste at college - although I would like to spend time gaining qualifications nothing really justifies the time or money spent to be honest.
 
S

Silly Sausage

I haven't got the time to waste at college - although I would like to spend time gaining qualifications nothing really justifies the time or money spent to be honest.
You're in a bit of a Catch 22 there then! :D
And unless you're an exceptional individual, like Einstein for example, you need the qualifications to play 'The Game'.
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
Well to explain the situation - it is definitely not to base a business model on - if i were to set up as a domestic electrician then of course i would become registered and qualified etc etc... dont worry I do know and have seen the dangers of bad electrics. This 3rd party notification scheme seems to be perhaps what I am looking for - could anybody explain in any more detail as to what this is?
And btw I havent got the time to waste at college - although I would like to spend time gaining qualifications nothing really justifies the time or money spent to be honest.
Need to ask @Vortigern, think he's registered as one?
 

mhar

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Arms
Read post 14 and phone Stroma or Napit. Not sure how somebody managed to disagree with it, it is what the system is.
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
Read post 14 and phone Stroma or Napit. Not sure how somebody managed to disagree with it, it is what the system is.
I do recall though, when Vortigern previously responded on not a dissimilar thread, his charges for such a service.
 
T

The Ghost

Thanks for the prompt @Midwest. I can say that it appears you have not gone ahead and done the work which allows third party notification. I am registered with Stroma for third party notification. Thay are quite strict on how it works and it does mean you have to be in at the design stage and oversee the project and test while installing and produce the EIC. They have a special Third party certificate for this which gets scrutinised by some boffins I suppose at Stroma and then possibly approved. Unfortunately your requirements exclude me as while I am reassuringly expensive, I resigned my membership from NICEIC as I don't get on with them. And NICEIC do not allow third party notification so you really are up the creek there without a paddle as they say. So you will have to contact building control and they will send their electrician who will no doubt be a member of NICEIC (ironically a third party notification in all but name!) and then a large bill for you. But on the good side it would be cheaper than me.
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
Hello. Am a competent electrician - been taught by qualified electricians, but have no qualifications myself.
Going back to the beginning again; whilst there is a significant gain to be mentored by experienced persons in a particular trade, those electricians, I suspect, have no knowledge on how a person should be trained, or to the technical aspects of that trade should be consumed & absorbed.

In short you can't police yourself in training, and who tests you to see if you've qualified in that area. My Dad help teach me to drive, but an examiner judicator that.

If your charging for your services, do you not think you should have some 'qualifications'?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
If your charging for your services, do you not think you should have some 'qualifications'?[/QUOTE]
Yes I agree - I may not necessarily charge any more than materials - but as a busy person nothing in my life justifies spending such time and money at college instead of earning. I totally agree that this is they way to go if you want to be a sparky as a job though.
 

Baddegg

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Arms
Supporter
Esteemed
Got to say barnaby your honesty is refreshing...but I think even if you find a spark that can sign off 3 rd party when you explain your lack of qualifications they will probably make they excuses..
 

buzzlightyear

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Arms
Esteemed
Im now going to throw my hat in to the ring , this third party testing how can storma and nitpick say to the sparks you can test it ,what about the insurances for it , would any body asking for there own insurance to cover it or does the third party insurances cover it considering they are testing it .
 

mhar

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Arms
For Stroma you have to increase your professional indemnity to £250,000
 

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