Discuss EICR What would you do? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Thanks BD. EICR = Electrical Installation Condition Report. Five bedroom bungalow, test out out of time, mixed MCBs and they're Proteus! - C2 or C3?
Yes Paul,
Think about the fact that we have argued the ---- over this one issue literally hundreds of times now and we are yet to agree.
No matter how many acronyms, statutory documents or EU directives you throw at me, you would never catch me in a month of Sundays C2'ing a different brand of breaker unless actual alterations had taken place to get it to fit.
As long as the only thing wrong with them is that they are mixed, then why do you need to code anything? What is dangerous? They are all BS60898 as far as i can see, so they are compliant, good practice and personal opinion has sod all to do with. I would code the non RCD circuits C3, because as it does not comply with BS7671, but again this is IMPROVEMENT RECOMMENDED, it is not mandatory. Remember, you are there to give a professional opinion on the installation to assess if it is safe for continued use, and this must be factual, not personal opinion or other peoples ideas and preferences.
Cheers..............Howard
Guys, you are missing the point.
You are NOT simply fitting a different compliant part.
60898 does not cover the fault performance of the device with respect to failure.
It only covers the performance of the device in protecting the outgoing circuit.
You are modifying a CE marked, TTA, or PTTA, thus, you are placing a new product into the market place without any verification that it complies with the statute law requirements for the product, of the standards that govern its design and manufacture.
You have no idea of how the replacement MCB will react under catastrophic failure and how this will interact with the remainder of the board, so that it meets the requirements of required safety.
I don't "like" it either, however, it is what it is, and we cannot change it.
Unless you can provide the required DRA, and type testing then you are not in compliance with the statute law for the product that you are producing, and like it or not you are producing a product.
One last comment to with regard to the Schneider post earlier with the mixing and matching of their breakers due to the branding changes, they have issued a "press release" saying that they are happy with this as long as the devices are compatible in their literature, so they will take the liability, so that one is a non-starter.
Look guys, like it or not, this is what we are lumped with, if you are not able to meet the requirements of the product standard for placing a new product into the market then don'd do it.
On an EICR, unless you can verify that the assembly meets the requirements, then it is a C2, as in the event of the device actually being required to function in anger, you have no control, or idea how the assembly will perform.
It could cause adjacent devices to also fail, this is the issue that you have, the unknown, and you have two potential failure modes required, hence the C2.
Rubbish situation, but that is the scenario that we are placed in, like it or not.
Damien, You can't tell me that you have not gone through the standards and found this out for yourself by now?
Nobody will ever let you know
when you ask the reasons why
they'l just tell you that your on your own
fill your head all full of lies!
sorry, just thought it was a bit apt. Mixed MCB's Skelton bang on as usual, what a load of will young.
Damien, You can't tell me that you have not gone through the standards and found this out for yourself by now?
Unfortunately in this case Mr Skelton, is well off kilter, and totally incorrect.
So what could the consequences actually be of fitting an mcb manufactured by a different company?
I appreciate the fact it's untested, but wondered what the real life issue could be.
There are certain parts of that gulf that I'm quite happy to see staying exactly where they are
One of the potential failure modes is that the device fails catastrophically due to fault current in excess of it's rating, the arc chute on the breaker allows the fault arc discharge to ignite other parts of the CU, that the "correct" manufacturers equipment would not have.
This really is getting very very silly.
I wonder if the boys landing on the beaches on D day had to cover a site induction before proceeding.
If you spend all this time hiding behind the technicalities your gonna grind to a halt.
Use common sense, and grow a pair please, for sanities sake.
Has anyone fitted a chint breaker to a merlin board ??
Ring the tech guys at schnieder by all means you will be surprised at the answer.
Whilst I can understand your point, it is surely the case that the consumer unit will contain cables that could be routed in any number of ways. There can therefore not be a "one size fits all" answer as the installed units will all differ to some extent.
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