O
Octopus
OK.
The EF poll last May was more accurate than all the other polls so can we do it again?
The EF poll last May was more accurate than all the other polls so can we do it again?
O
Octopus
A
Adam W
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
It's difficult to say, given I don't know what the "latest news" is. Some sort of 'deal' with the EU, although the press seem to expect everyone to know exactly what that deal is so they can simply refer to it as "the deal".
It was the same with whatever happened in Paris in a concert hall or theatre or whatever. The press were so busy picking the bones they didn't bother to clarify what had actually happened.
It's difficult to say, given I don't know what the "latest news" is. Some sort of 'deal' with the EU, although the press seem to expect everyone to know exactly what that deal is so they can simply refer to it as "the deal".
It was the same with whatever happened in Paris in a concert hall or theatre or whatever. The press were so busy picking the bones they didn't bother to clarify what had actually happened.
D
Darkwood
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Basically Brussels says 'we can ask' to limit benefits for up to 4 yrs to EU immigrants if we find ourselves in struggling with the influx of migrants as a way to stem the flow... this will be put on the table then all the other nations have to agree before we would be allowed, in reality all the poorer nations are already saying this wouldn't be fair so its really a false flag he is flying because Cameron has not got any powers back as he promised, he has not limited the free flow of EU immigration as he promised he would table and he has no interest in leaving the EU so he's trying to bluff his way out of it.
The second Irony of all this new deal on the table crap, is that we already have the power to put the question on the table, all he has done is got brussles to formerly announce that we can ask them if we can limit the benefits of migrants.. they turned down the total limitation, but instead said you can ask for a rest but in reality again its clearly evident we would never get the deal as all member states need to agree and to be honest, I have more chance of winning the Jackpot lottery twice in a row.. its smoke and mirrors, they are pretending we are getting something good when we haven't been given anything.
It was all set up to try look like the meetings were been hard debating and struggles for an agreement but it was really all decided a while ago then the theatricals for effect - I mean how do you hide the fact you have acheived nothing in the deal - you put a big show on and hope the Electorate falls for it.
Basically Brussels says 'we can ask' to limit benefits for up to 4 yrs to EU immigrants if we find ourselves in struggling with the influx of migrants as a way to stem the flow... this will be put on the table then all the other nations have to agree before we would be allowed, in reality all the poorer nations are already saying this wouldn't be fair so its really a false flag he is flying because Cameron has not got any powers back as he promised, he has not limited the free flow of EU immigration as he promised he would table and he has no interest in leaving the EU so he's trying to bluff his way out of it.
The second Irony of all this new deal on the table crap, is that we already have the power to put the question on the table, all he has done is got brussles to formerly announce that we can ask them if we can limit the benefits of migrants.. they turned down the total limitation, but instead said you can ask for a rest but in reality again its clearly evident we would never get the deal as all member states need to agree and to be honest, I have more chance of winning the Jackpot lottery twice in a row.. its smoke and mirrors, they are pretending we are getting something good when we haven't been given anything.
It was all set up to try look like the meetings were been hard debating and struggles for an agreement but it was really all decided a while ago then the theatricals for effect - I mean how do you hide the fact you have acheived nothing in the deal - you put a big show on and hope the Electorate falls for it.
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Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Expect the country to vote NO and as Cameron has boxed himself into a corner, he will be out. Tories self destruct again and JC wins the election and turns us sharp left just as we have left EU land........ deep joy..lol
Expect the country to vote NO and as Cameron has boxed himself into a corner, he will be out. Tories self destruct again and JC wins the election and turns us sharp left just as we have left EU land........ deep joy..lol
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Out and it won't make that much difference, the giving up of national sovereignty and control of our own legislation is unacceptable in my view. The whole concept of free movement in Europe is fundamentally flawed. I think Cameron has misjudged this whole issue, if Boris stands anti Europe he will probably be Cameron's successor, I thought May would go head to head but she has no spine! I think I may get down to Bet Fred tomorrow and have a few quid on it!
Out and it won't make that much difference, the giving up of national sovereignty and control of our own legislation is unacceptable in my view. The whole concept of free movement in Europe is fundamentally flawed. I think Cameron has misjudged this whole issue, if Boris stands anti Europe he will probably be Cameron's successor, I thought May would go head to head but she has no spine! I think I may get down to Bet Fred tomorrow and have a few quid on it!
Y
YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Yes. Um, which would you say is preferable; having some measure of control over land borders with Iraq and Syria or having no control but having land borders with the country that does?
Yes. Um, which would you say is preferable; having some measure of control over land borders with Iraq and Syria or having no control but having land borders with the country that does?
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
We're all doomed then.
I want out but not at the expense of that left wing lunatic running the show.
We're all doomed then.
I want out but not at the expense of that left wing lunatic running the show.
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
You'd make a good politician Murdoch,
The EF poll gave Ukip over 51% of the vote.
They got 12%
You'd make a good politician Murdoch,
The EF poll gave Ukip over 51% of the vote.
They got 12%
O
Octopus
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
no i wouldn't.
I sometimes just say it as it is!
no i wouldn't.
I sometimes just say it as it is!
Y
YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Except when you say it as it isn't.
Except when you say it as it isn't.
M
malcolmsanford
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Trouble is I think most in the UK want with their hearts out, but their heads will say no.
It is a lot like Trump in America there he was with fantastic ratings and a "cert"............perhaps not quite, but there is still doubt about Iowa.
The popular sway in that last "Referendum" was an out, but was a majority no to stay in, and I think Europe will be the same
When push comes to shove us humans don't like change, yes we have a big moan about things and nothing is right, but when given a choice of the status quo or the unknown, it's the status quo.
My choice is the first line
Trouble is I think most in the UK want with their hearts out, but their heads will say no.
It is a lot like Trump in America there he was with fantastic ratings and a "cert"............perhaps not quite, but there is still doubt about Iowa.
The popular sway in that last "Referendum" was an out, but was a majority no to stay in, and I think Europe will be the same
When push comes to shove us humans don't like change, yes we have a big moan about things and nothing is right, but when given a choice of the status quo or the unknown, it's the status quo.
My choice is the first line
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
They shouldn't be allowed anything until they end their illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus.
As for the EU, the two votes in my household are going in the Out box.
They shouldn't be allowed anything until they end their illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus.
As for the EU, the two votes in my household are going in the Out box.
Y
YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
You don't think that's maybe a one sided view of the situation? Greece didn't sponsor a coup d’état which removed the elected President, Makarios, thus sparking off a Turkish invasion? Nobody's innoccent in this.
You don't think that's maybe a one sided view of the situation? Greece didn't sponsor a coup d’état which removed the elected President, Makarios, thus sparking off a Turkish invasion? Nobody's innoccent in this.
O
Octopus
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
You've lost me! Who said anything about Greece?
You've lost me! Who said anything about Greece?
Y
YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Wait a minute and I'll check. Yup, as I thought. It was me. Iwas replying to a particular post. Keep up.
Wait a minute and I'll check. Yup, as I thought. It was me. Iwas replying to a particular post. Keep up.
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Wouldn't redress the amount of money they would lose if the UK left the EU.
Thats the real reason the EU don't want the UK to leave.
Wouldn't redress the amount of money they would lose if the UK left the EU.
Thats the real reason the EU don't want the UK to leave.
M
MikeL1
EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
For me it has to be OUT, we have completely lost control of the UK, big brother in Brussels has too much say and usually never to our benefit.
Brussels only want us for our money, time to get out and go back to looking after ourselves.
For me it has to be OUT, we have completely lost control of the UK, big brother in Brussels has too much say and usually never to our benefit.
Brussels only want us for our money, time to get out and go back to looking after ourselves.
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
we really going to have a vote on leaving the eu?
When's that going to happen?
If the PM was going to listen to the people we would have had it already not in a couple of years, think he just hopes we will forget about it so when he loses power he can get a nice job in Brussels just to top up his pension as we all know it's hard work being a politician and you have to be well qualified to do it, it's not like you can do a 5weak course, the pay is not that good, bonuses and expenses are next to nothing and the pension is one of the worst in the world
we really going to have a vote on leaving the eu?
When's that going to happen?
If the PM was going to listen to the people we would have had it already not in a couple of years, think he just hopes we will forget about it so when he loses power he can get a nice job in Brussels just to top up his pension as we all know it's hard work being a politician and you have to be well qualified to do it, it's not like you can do a 5weak course, the pay is not that good, bonuses and expenses are next to nothing and the pension is one of the worst in the world
N
newtothis
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Time to get out ! out ! out ! :dots:
That's why the tories got elected, cos they where the only 'credible party' offering a referendum.
Even people that are idealogically opposed to the Tories voted for them.
That's why the pollsters got it so wrong. just my opinion.
We need to stop the mass hoards of unskilled labour and unvetted, economic migrants who hate our values, and way life.
The tory deal is not for hard working people - merely a veto on employment rights, and anything else detrimental to the interests paymasters in BIG business.
The country is full, roads are gridlocked, NHS can't cope, I could go on forever..............
Time to get out ! out ! out ! :dots:
That's why the tories got elected, cos they where the only 'credible party' offering a referendum.
Even people that are idealogically opposed to the Tories voted for them.
That's why the pollsters got it so wrong. just my opinion.
We need to stop the mass hoards of unskilled labour and unvetted, economic migrants who hate our values, and way life.
The tory deal is not for hard working people - merely a veto on employment rights, and anything else detrimental to the interests paymasters in BIG business.
The country is full, roads are gridlocked, NHS can't cope, I could go on forever..............
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Y
YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
This kind of stuff saves me the price of a Daily Mail.
This kind of stuff saves me the price of a Daily Mail.
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
no, because we are nett contributors. turkey would be a taker. like spain. sod 'em. if they can't manage an economy, why should we all pay excessive taxes to support them.
D
Darkwood
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
When Turkey join 2020 if goes to plan then the EU would have to input more money into Turkey than the UK inputs in the EU - now at 55million per day that we contribute then that is one massive drain on the EU purse and guess what will happen to our contribution?.. YEP it would have to increase by quite a sum.
When Turkey join 2020 if goes to plan then the EU would have to input more money into Turkey than the UK inputs in the EU - now at 55million per day that we contribute then that is one massive drain on the EU purse and guess what will happen to our contribution?.. YEP it would have to increase by quite a sum.
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
back in the 70's, when the original referendum was taken, i voted no. everyone i've ever spoken to since then says that they voted no. so why was there ever a yes vote? figures juggled by wilson? would camearron do the same if the majority voted no now?
back in the 70's, when the original referendum was taken, i voted no. everyone i've ever spoken to since then says that they voted no. so why was there ever a yes vote? figures juggled by wilson? would camearron do the same if the majority voted no now?
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
So is that a done deal, a few boxes to be ticked and Turkey gets to join the club in 2020 ?
So is that a done deal, a few boxes to be ticked and Turkey gets to join the club in 2020 ?
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
they did the same with the UKIP vote in the last GE, apparently they actually got 89% of the vote
they did the same with the UKIP vote in the last GE, apparently they actually got 89% of the vote
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YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
You might want to consider leaving the UK then. It's been a consistent supporter of Turkey's membership. Turkey, by the way, has been an associate member since 1963, long before we joined the EEC.
You might want to consider leaving the UK then. It's been a consistent supporter of Turkey's membership. Turkey, by the way, has been an associate member since 1963, long before we joined the EEC.
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YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Actually, it's in bothe continents, although largely it's Asian.
Actually, it's in bothe continents, although largely it's Asian.
Y
YoungScud
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Um, so did Germany. What's your point?
Um, so did Germany. What's your point?
D
Darkwood
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
The EU is desperate to expand, it already has its eyes on Turkey due to existing relations and has given them some conditions to conform to so as to be allowed to join the ever failing EU, the problem is Turkey is a muslim country and is torn by the same issues other muslim countries fall foul of, that is the divide between the differing Muslim groups- this see's regular terrorist attacks most that never reach the news as it doesn't often effect the 3% side of Turkey that falls in Europe and we know as the holiday resorts, also to remember is the remaining 97% is actually in Asia not Europe so begging the question why financially cripple the EU by asking them to join.
I cannot see why the EU would want Turkey considering its going to be such a drain + the expected migration as they become EU citizens will be large -Hmmm maybe this as been more a strategical effort with regards to military position - if Turkey is in the EU then we have a country NATO could use that would give us a military strategic positional advantage- I may be wrong but there are too many negatives to have Turkey join unless we had other motives.
Of course they are not going to tell us the truth :thinking:.... but how ever you look at it, it will hit you me and J.Bloggs in the pocket if they join.
Here a Pro's and Con's list... some of the Con's are scary indeed to be allowed into the EU :icon9:
http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/...d-against-turkeys-eu-membership/#.VrTMYPmLTIV
The EU is desperate to expand, it already has its eyes on Turkey due to existing relations and has given them some conditions to conform to so as to be allowed to join the ever failing EU, the problem is Turkey is a muslim country and is torn by the same issues other muslim countries fall foul of, that is the divide between the differing Muslim groups- this see's regular terrorist attacks most that never reach the news as it doesn't often effect the 3% side of Turkey that falls in Europe and we know as the holiday resorts, also to remember is the remaining 97% is actually in Asia not Europe so begging the question why financially cripple the EU by asking them to join.
I cannot see why the EU would want Turkey considering its going to be such a drain + the expected migration as they become EU citizens will be large -Hmmm maybe this as been more a strategical effort with regards to military position - if Turkey is in the EU then we have a country NATO could use that would give us a military strategic positional advantage- I may be wrong but there are too many negatives to have Turkey join unless we had other motives.
Of course they are not going to tell us the truth :thinking:.... but how ever you look at it, it will hit you me and J.Bloggs in the pocket if they join.
Here a Pro's and Con's list... some of the Con's are scary indeed to be allowed into the EU :icon9:
http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/...d-against-turkeys-eu-membership/#.VrTMYPmLTIV
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D
Darkwood
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
And what part of the unelected Merkel machine is trustworthy ... they would probably fit in well with the smoke and mirrors of the Brussels brady bunch :sifone:
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
So there isn't a plan already in place for them to fully join the big boys club in 2020 ?
So there isn't a plan already in place for them to fully join the big boys club in 2020 ?
D
Darkwood
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Negotiations are ongoing, the plan is 2020 as a set date, there are those who oppose and those who are for it... yes there is a plan in place par ce' but whether it will come to fruition is another thing Turkey has alot to get in order like human rights violations to start with, also the biggest stumbling block for them joining is Merkel herself as she is against the move which usually she is considered the voice of Europe and the most powerful women in the world, what she wants is usually the outcome but tides are changing and her open door invite to immigrants has massively backfired on germany and the EU and she has lost alot of ground and influence on this massive misjudgement, that decision could be her and the EU's downfall so making a call on Turkey joining is very hard at the moment, but like I say - this seems to have military strings attached which would mean the EU would find a way to bring them in otherwise the invite would never have occured in the first place.
Negotiations are ongoing, the plan is 2020 as a set date, there are those who oppose and those who are for it... yes there is a plan in place par ce' but whether it will come to fruition is another thing Turkey has alot to get in order like human rights violations to start with, also the biggest stumbling block for them joining is Merkel herself as she is against the move which usually she is considered the voice of Europe and the most powerful women in the world, what she wants is usually the outcome but tides are changing and her open door invite to immigrants has massively backfired on germany and the EU and she has lost alot of ground and influence on this massive misjudgement, that decision could be her and the EU's downfall so making a call on Turkey joining is very hard at the moment, but like I say - this seems to have military strings attached which would mean the EU would find a way to bring them in otherwise the invite would never have occured in the first place.
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Turkey will never be full member, over the past few years they've moved further away from compliance with AC - find yourself an itemised list of the numerous chapters, they've just pandered to the compliance requirements. This shouldn't be a surprise seeing as so few Turks actually think joining is a good idea - other than our fool there's very little support for them joining - to suggest otherwise is just scaremongering.
I forgot to ask - where did this 2020 come from ?
Turkey will never be full member, over the past few years they've moved further away from compliance with AC - find yourself an itemised list of the numerous chapters, they've just pandered to the compliance requirements. This shouldn't be a surprise seeing as so few Turks actually think joining is a good idea - other than our fool there's very little support for them joining - to suggest otherwise is just scaremongering.
I forgot to ask - where did this 2020 come from ?
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Darkwood
Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"
Your not seeing the full picture, its a very strategic position not just for Syria but other, lets say big players in the world.. the whole Turkey joining issue is a lot bigger than the sum of its parts - when the military need to position themselves for an advantage on many fronts then you either invade and take over or you make sure they join your party.. invading Turkey is not an option and this isn't just the EU here, I smell the USA are pulling strings here, this is part of the reason the USA is so against us leaving the EU, it has little to do with trade but more so military politics.. if we are out the USA has less influence as we tend to be its military lapdog as has been proven so many times before.
Oh yes and I forgot - Turkey has a magic bullit, they are basically demanding to join or they will flood the EU with immigrants ... tbh they have the ACE here, Turkey is run by a corrupt Islamic leader who has already had meetings with Merkel on this subject, when Merkel agree's to make a deal like she already has, it shows how bad things are for the EU, letting Turkey in may be the only way to stem the migrant flow which is derailing the EU and breaking it up.
This isn't propaganda - these meeting were done last autumn, an agreement wasn't made to meet both parties needs but 3billion was handed over to help turkey cope with the influx (Well thats what we were told) but still Turkey let anyone through who wanted to, this led to fuelling the continuing crisis and is still ongoing... it could see Turkey join before 2020, which was a date drafted in an EU document if I remember but it could have just been a estimated figure.
Your not seeing the full picture, its a very strategic position not just for Syria but other, lets say big players in the world.. the whole Turkey joining issue is a lot bigger than the sum of its parts - when the military need to position themselves for an advantage on many fronts then you either invade and take over or you make sure they join your party.. invading Turkey is not an option and this isn't just the EU here, I smell the USA are pulling strings here, this is part of the reason the USA is so against us leaving the EU, it has little to do with trade but more so military politics.. if we are out the USA has less influence as we tend to be its military lapdog as has been proven so many times before.
Oh yes and I forgot - Turkey has a magic bullit, they are basically demanding to join or they will flood the EU with immigrants ... tbh they have the ACE here, Turkey is run by a corrupt Islamic leader who has already had meetings with Merkel on this subject, when Merkel agree's to make a deal like she already has, it shows how bad things are for the EU, letting Turkey in may be the only way to stem the migrant flow which is derailing the EU and breaking it up.
This isn't propaganda - these meeting were done last autumn, an agreement wasn't made to meet both parties needs but 3billion was handed over to help turkey cope with the influx (Well thats what we were told) but still Turkey let anyone through who wanted to, this led to fuelling the continuing crisis and is still ongoing... it could see Turkey join before 2020, which was a date drafted in an EU document if I remember but it could have just been a estimated figure.
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