Fire Brigade advice

[gutterball]

Hi. So after all the fuss from the fire brigades about the metal consumer units to prevent fires. I went to a house today that the owners were going to rent out to give it a quick check over. Whilst there I mentioned the current rules about smoke alarms and that it would be a good idea to replace the 2 battery ones. He told me that he had had the local fire brigade out to have a look, and that they had put them up, no mention of mains power or interlinking. You would think that if they were giving advice to home owners they would be aware of the current building standard?

 

[Guest666]

Hi. So after all the fuss from the fire brigades about the metal consumer units to prevent fires. I went to a house today that the owners were going to rent out to give it a quick check over. Whilst there I mentioned the current rules about smoke alarms and that it would be a good idea to replace the 2 battery ones. He told me that he had had the local fire brigade out to have a look, and that they had put them up, no mention of mains power or interlinking. You would think that if they were giving advice to home owners they would be aware of the current building standard?

I completely agree but I suppose they are trying to say that battery only alarms are better than no alarms. Maybe if they accompanied their alarm installation with information saying that a mains powered alarm c/w battery back up and interconnection would be in line with current regs and a more appropriate means of domestic smoke detection.

 

[Paul.M]

I'm guessing it is a single dwelling and not a HMO when you say home owners.

It would be a good idea for the fire brigade to recommend hard wired or RF smoke/heat systems in domestic homes. Maybe worth sending an e-mail to your local head office of the fire brigade/local fire safety officer?

 

[gutterball]

There advice seemed to be unplug everything keep all the doors closed and by the way do you want us to stick up a couple of alarms.

 

[Guest666]

Take the little old lady down the road who does not have enough money to heat the whole house. She has lived to see 70. I would rather she had a few freebie battery alarms fitted by the local FB than nothing at all.

 

[Octopus]

Hi. So after all the fuss from the fire brigades about the metal consumer units to prevent fires. I went to a house today that the owners were going to rent out to give it a quick check over. Whilst there I mentioned the current rules about smoke alarms and that it would be a good idea to replace the 2 battery ones. He told me that he had had the local fire brigade out to have a look, and that they had put them up, no mention of mains power or interlinking. You would think that if they were giving advice to home owners they would be aware of the current building standard?

Hit. Nail and head Spring to mind. I don't believe that the Fb called for metal cu's for a moment. I imagine that the scheme's pushed for it.

 

[ipf]

Hit. Nail and head Spring to mind. I don't believe that the Fb called for metal cu's for a moment. I imagine that the scheme's pushed for it.

No 'danger' there.....to coin a phrase.

 

[Fin170]

Hit. Nail and head Spring to mind. I don't believe that the Fb called for metal cu's for a moment. I imagine that the scheme's pushed for it.

Seconded

I picture a meeting between the LFB and scam providers and the LFB representative saying along the lines "We're concerned by the five fold increase in fuse board fire since p̶a̶r̶t̶ ̶p̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶d̶ 2005" and nothing said on the scam provider's side other than huge pound signs appearing in their eyes

 

[baldsparkies]

Any fire attendance regardless of cause, will result in the offer of fire angel battery operated detectors free of charge.
Assuming no other form of detection is in place.
As others have said something is better than nothing.
There good little units as well.
With reference to 3rd amendment all metal boards.
This parallels the 15th edition bonding paranoia from that time.
It will settle down and common sense may well prevail.

 

[telectrix]

basic economics. FB fit battery detectors for free. takes less than 1/2 hour. can't imagine them ripping up floors etc. to fit mains units, apart from the fact that their expertise in in fighting fires, not having done a Electrical Trainee course on basic domestic electrical installation.

 

[Octopus]

Round here the FB muppets don't seem to understand that smoke alarms have a "shelf" life and leave old ones in place!

 

[tazz]

If the house is just a dwelling being rent out, and not a HMO, then any grade of smoke alarm is accepted, standard battery grade F will meet requirements. With the dwelling being let to an agency or to private tenant, BC have no involvement.

 

[Newbyspark]

Round here the FB muppets don't seem to understand that smoke alarms have a "shelf" life and leave old ones in place!

The FB 'Muppets' are not allowed to take old ones down even with the verbal permission of the home owner. FB 'Muppets are supplied with smoke detectors to put up, they can't recommend hardwired ones or any make. They may be Muppets in your eyes then hopefully your never need to be carried out of a burning building by one of these Muppets.

 

[baldsparkies]

The FB 'Muppets' are not allowed to take old ones down even with the verbal permission of the home owner.

Muppets aint what I would call these guys to be fair.
They may be saving the lives of any one of us one day, and I bet Muppets would be the last name on our minds when that happens God forbid !!

 

[Newbyspark]

The FB 'Muppets' are not allowed to take old ones down even with the verbal permission of the home owner.

Muppets aint what I would call these guys to be fair.
They may be saving the lives of any one of us one day, and I bet Muppets would be the last name on our minds when that happens God forbid !!

That was my point. I'am one of those Firefighters who happens to have become an electrician aswell. I've rescued people from fires, car crashes ect, and without being dragged into that FB 'Muppet' remark from Murdoch about smoke alarms our hands are tied. We can only give people what we are supplied with. It's not down to us what system people have, but if they haven't got any smoke alarms, us giving them a couple of 10 year alarms is much better than nothing. I don't understand why some people on this forum feel the need to put people down and obviously think that their the dogs danglies at everything they do.

 

[tazz]

I think most are missing the point that this is a private dwelling, and as such you cannot force any house holder or owner to install smoke protection unless it is a new build. Over the years I have had so many arguments with local FB and luckily BC have backed me up every time. But as it stands, there is no enforcement to insist on a Part 6 install

 

[trev]

There - A place

 

[trev]

Hit. Nail and head Spring to mind. I don't believe that the Fb called for metal cu's for a moment. I imagine that the scheme's pushed for it because for them to do anything other than that would have meant that they were acknowledging that their Electrical Trainee experiment had failed dismally

Took the liberty of adding to your post mate.

 

[Guest666]

I am quite shocked that anyone would critiques any local FB for fitting FOC smoke detectors.

These same people would probably complain if the FB did install mains operated smoke alarms that the FB are not competant.

 

[R G]

Some of the elderly can't afford us to go in and fit mains powered smokes all linked up , so to see them with something has got be the best surely , FB are at least helping out where others aren't ...

If I ever do a job and see free smokes in place fitted by FB , I would never criticise whats been fitted , I would explain that there are other smokes available but thats all ...

 

[tazz]

Well this brings us to another discussion...are FB as fire fighters upto the job as risk assessors ...I think not...I have surveyed many public houses, built in 1700 & 1800, and constructed of brick & wood. We put forward a full fire alarm system to protect life Part 1, being a commercial building....FB gave them free smoke alarms and stated this was all that was required...BC ripped them apart and upheld our complaint...the public houses were forced to install a full fire alarm system to Part 1

 

[R G]

Well this brings us to another discussion...are FB as fire fighters upto the job as risk assessors ...I think not...I have surveyed many public houses, built in 1700 & 1800, and constructed of brick & wood. We put forward a full fire alarm system to protect life Part 1, being a commercial building....FB gave them free smoke alarms and stated this was all that was required...BC ripped them apart and upheld our complaint...the public houses were forced to install a full fire alarm system to Part 1

This is very true , but commercial and public buildings etc is a different ball game altogether ...

 

[tazz]

This is very true , but commercial and public buildings etc is a different ball game altogether ...

Exactly the point, and FB should be trained to the same standards, as risk assessors

 

[R G]

Having taken another look at the OP , IMO if the property was to be rented out then FB should not have got involved and advised accordingly ...

I didn't think this is what these free smokes were about ...

 

[tazz]

Private dwelling......I cannot come to your house and tell you to fit grade D detection, it is your property

 

[Octopus]

The FB 'Muppets' are not allowed to take old ones down even with the verbal permission of the home owner. FB 'Muppets are supplied with smoke detectors to put up, they can't recommend hardwired ones or any make. They may be Muppets in your eyes then hopefully your never need to be carried out of a burning building by one of these Muppets.

My point is that they leave faulty smoke alarms in properties, well past there dates as on the labels visible on the side.

They either do it right or not at all IMHO.

 

[tazz]

My point is that they leave faulty smoke alarms in properties, well past there dates as on the labels visible on the side.

They either do it right or not at all IMHO.

Very good point....but they will say its your responsibility as a home owner to check the dates

 

[davesparks]

My point is that they leave faulty smoke alarms in properties, well past there dates as on the labels visible on the side.

They either do it right or not at all IMHO.

Are you suggesting they should not fit smoke alarms if an existing one has exceeded its useable lifespan?
Is it really better to have no working smoke alarms than to have a non functional one left on the ceiling?
Maybe they should take the old ones down and fill the screw holes and paint the ceiling to cover the marks, or clean up the mess if the previous one was stuck up with a sticky pad?

 

[Newbyspark]

Think there is a bit of confusion over what happens in the fire service. Fire fighters have to go and fit smoke detectors in some households. We are given smokes to put up, usually 10 year ones. If there are any smokes already there but do not work we are not allowed to take them down because if a bit of plaster or something comes down with it we could be held liable to repair the ceiling. There is a department in most fire services that's called community fire safety. These are the people that will assess building's and I agree that not all of the people have the required knowledge, but they do the best they can with the training they are given and I also agree that this shouldn't happen. I also don't think that the fire service has much say on what consumer units should be installed.

 

[tazz]

My personal opinion....FB should keep their nose out, and stick to putting fires out...BC conform to BS5839 and approved document B, and as such have the final ruling

 

[Octopus]

My point is that the FB have little to do these days so they do such jobs to get them out of the fire station.

My local ones carpark has as many trade vehicles as my local Wickes @ 8am

 

[Adam W]

I was under the impression mains interlinked alarms were only a requirement for new builds, when wiring is being put in anyway.
You can't really expect to say the word and everyone has to have their carpet and floorboards ripped up to have slightly different smoke detectors put in just in case they forget to change the batteries.
Same with metal CUs - like with all changes to the regs this isn't retrospective, but if you're having a new CU fitted it may as well be a metal one.
Yes I'm aware of the debate over cowboy DIs going around telling little old ladies that the CU they had installed 2 months ago is now illegal all of a sudden.

 

[tazz]

Well again Professionals giving good input....and the trainee section jump into a section out of their depth...

 

[elevate]

My personal opinion....FB should keep their nose out, and stick to putting fires out...BC conform to BS5839 and approved document B, and as such have the final ruling

They should also stay well clear of lifts, when they are not smashing the doors in with a sledgehammer (they have release keys) causing thousands of pounds worth of damage, they rescue passengers by releasing the brake, if the lift car is in the upper part of the shaft it will roll upwards, which can leave the landing doors open at the floor it was rolled up from with the lift car above. So there is now a situation with landing doors open into an empty shaft which they do not check before leaving site. I have seen this on three separate occasions in public buildings, how no one has been killed is pure luck.

 

[Adam W]

They should also stay well clear of lifts, when they are not smashing the doors in with a sledgehammer (they have release keys) causing thousands of pounds worth of damage, they rescue passengers by releasing the brake, if the lift car is in the upper part of the shaft it will roll upwards, which can leave the landing doors open at the floor it was rolled up from with the lift car above. So there is now a situation with landing doors open into an empty shaft which they do not check before leaving site. I have seen this on three separate occasions in public buildings, how no one has been killed is pure luck.

Either that or receive further training to do it properly. If someone is stuck in a lift at the weekend you can't very well leave them there until Monday morning.

 

[elevate]

Either that or receive further training to do it properly. If someone is stuck in a lift at the weekend you can't very well leave them there until Monday morning.

That's what lift engineers are for, who are on call 24/7.

 

[trev]

Why is it that people who work on telecoms systems, heating systems, lifts and alarms are known generally as engineers.
They bloody are not! It boils me wee.

 

[elevate]

Lift engineers are not engineers ?

 

[Guest666]

Why is it that people who work on telecoms systems, heating systems, lifts and alarms are known generally as engineers.
They bloody are not! It boils me wee.

Hang on a minute. That guy who came over to repair my washing machine. Are you telling me he ain't no engineer?

 

[elevate]

Ever stripped a gear on a lift machine, Installed guide rails, roped a lift, changed bearings or tested a lift ?