glitch in Power One 3.6 OUTD power reporting?

[Sunshine777]

Every now and then my system with a Power One 3.6 OUTD inverter reports a cumulative power output for the day of 255 watts even though it's only just turned on at perhaps 08:00 and the actual instantaneous output is perhaps in the single figures or low double figures. Thus 255 Wh for the day so far is rather implausible. A check on the live output page on pvoutput at the same time reveals perhaps 1, 2 or 3 systems every day with early morning outputs at or above 255 Wh while the rest are at just a few watt hours. Check their inverters and every time it's a Power One 3.6 OUTD. Drill down into the daily page for each system and again the cumulative vs instantaneous outputs don't correlate. I suppose it doesn't matter much in the greater scheme of things as the inverter's power reporting is just for informational purposes and its the only generation meter reading that really matters but curious if others have seen this or have an explanation.

Here's a snapshot from pvoutput from this morning; the first 3 systems all have Power One 3.6 OUTD inverters:

BlackBoys
Uncle Mike Dundee
Dunfermline SSE+WSW Arrays
KCHOME
Workshop
St Lawrence Solar
JayEmmCeeOne
Gillingham Generator
PAD4U
Maidstone-UK
Purr Power
MJB_HFW2

[TD="colspan: 6"] Live Outputs [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 8, align: right"]
[/TD]

[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"]Rank[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] Intraday [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8, align: left"] Location [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] System Size [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] Energy [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] Efficiency [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] Power [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] Seen [/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"]Awake[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"]Updated[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] Online ▼ [/TH]
[TH="class: indicator"]
[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"][/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E0ECF8"] [/TH]

[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom TN22[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.760kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.404kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.107kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]265W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]00:00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8hr 30min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom DD5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.760kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.265kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.070kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]70W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31 secs ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]07:55[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:35[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom KY12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.675kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.255kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.069kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]00:00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8hr 30min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"][/TD]

[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom TN34[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.920kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.215kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.055kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]360W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]00:00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8hr 30min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"][/TD]

[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom DA1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 9.890kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.188kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.019kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]264W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40 secs ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]07:45[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]45min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom PO38[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.960kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.138kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.035kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]292W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]00:00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8hr 30min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom RG27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4.080kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.138kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.034kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]168W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]07:20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1hr 10min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom ME7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 4.000kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.124kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.031kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]204W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]06:15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2hr 15min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]9[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom M19[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.840kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.115kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.030kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]216W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]00:00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8hr 30min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom TN12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.900kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.113kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.029kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]228W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]07:50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom PO15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.760kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.110kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.029kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]192W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]

[TD="align: left"] United Kingdom BN42[/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3.600kW [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.108kWh[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.030kWh/kW[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]204W[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2 mins ago[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]07:55[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]08:35[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]40min[/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"]
[/TD]

[TD="align: right"][/TD]

[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="class: indicator, align: left"][/TD]

[TD="align: center"][/TD]

 

[SolarCity]

That's interesting. Do you find you get this reading every morning?

 

[Sunshine777]

No, just random mornings.

 

[Fitstart]

No, just random mornings.

Same here - getting really annoying, sometimes it is a glitch of several kWh at start up.

I thought at first it was a communication error from the inverter to the computer (running Aurora Communicator), but the inverter display also shows the same wrong energy reading on the display for that day.

Here is a sample of part of today's log showing what is happening:

[info]
Plant Name:
Date: 19/04/2012


[measurements]
Time;Address;Model;MPPT;VDC1;IDC1;PDC1;VDC2;IDC2;PDC2;VAC;IAC;PAC;TINV;TINT;ENERGY;RISO;ILEAK;GENFREQ;
;;;;VDC;ADC;W;VDC;ADC;W;V;A;W;°C;°C;Wh;MOhm;mA;Hz;


[start]
05:47;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:48;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:49;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:50;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:51;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:52;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:53;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0;0;
05:54;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
05:55;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
05:56;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
05:57;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
05:58;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
05:59;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;0.0;0.0;0.0;91.7;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:00;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;101.9;0.0;0.0;110.4;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:01;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;101.9;0.0;0.0;110.4;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:02;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;122.1;0.0;0.0;110.4;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:03;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;122.1;0.0;0.0;110.4;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:04;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;122.1;0.0;0.0;110.4;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:05;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;104.9;0.0;0.0;123.8;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:06;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;104.9;0.0;0.0;123.8;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;0.0;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:07;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;93.4;0.0;0.0;92.5;0.0;0.0;245.8;0.0;0.0;9.4;9.4;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:08;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;193.9;0.0;0.0;193.8;0.0;0.0;245.3;0.0;0.0;9.6;9.5;2948.0;0.0;0;0;
06:09;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;179.8;0.0;0.0;175.9;0.0;0.0;245.3;0.0;0.0;9.8;10.1;2948.0;20.0;0;0;
06:10;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;172.4;0.0;0.0;196.1;0.0;0.0;245.1;0.0;0.0;9.9;10.5;2948.0;20.0;0;0;
06:11;2;PVI-3.6-OUTD-UK;D;204.7;0.0;0.0;202.6;0.0;0.0;245.5;0.0;0.0;10.0;10.9;2948.0;20.0;0;0;

See the 2948 (Wh) ? - that should not be there.

I have tried different Vstart1 and Vstart2 settings, but no difference. (I have 2 strings, 7 panels, 8 panels).

It looks like a surge or spike that is confusing the inverter? - I would think it might be possible to fix it in firmware, but I'm not aware of any way to get the firmware updated on the Power One.

 

[Gavin A]

is it anything to do with the capacitors discharging / charging?

 

[pvman]

I have spoken to power one about glitches with the desktop displays, we have a few which show totals on the statistics page that don't add up to the totals on the main page, they say they are aware of issue and we need to wait for a software update maybe this is a related problem.

On a separate note when you update the fit price you then get the income adjusting for everything you generated at the new rate making the figure irrelevant. Anyone know of a way to fix this?

Tom

 

[Fitstart]

is it anything to do with the capacitors discharging / charging?

It may be Gavin, but the firmware should be able to tell that the energy reading is spurious as it suddenly jumps up to a figure from nothing in an instant, yet the power is still zero. I suspect it may be some spike getting coupled into the measuring system.

 

[Fitstart]

I have spoken to power one about glitches with the desktop displays, we have a few which show totals on the statistics page that don't add up to the totals on the main page, they say they are aware of issue and we need to wait for a software update maybe this is a related problem.

On a separate note when you update the fit price you then get the income adjusting for everything you generated at the new rate making the figure irrelevant. Anyone know of a way to fix this?

Tom

I don't think it is possible to have different rates for different periods. PVOUTPUT does allow this though.
Now if only we could get rid of the glitch in Energy while starting up and the PVOUTPUT live results would be accurate.

I do have a desktop display as well, but only use it for quickly checking what is going on, it is extremely poorly designed, can't even keep the display on all the time, it goes to sleep. If I had known how poor it was I would not have bothered with it, as the combination of a dedicated PC running Aurora Communicator and uploading to PVOUTPUT and an iPhone is much better IMO.

 

[xixou]

I don't think it is possible to have different rates for different periods. PVOUTPUT does allow this though.
Now if only we could get rid of the glitch in Energy while starting up and the PVOUTPUT live results would be accurate.

I do have a desktop display as well, but only use it for quickly checking what is going on, it is extremely poorly designed, can't even keep the display on all the time, it goes to sleep. If I had known how poor it was I would not have bothered with it, as the combination of a dedicated PC running Aurora Communicator and uploading to PVOUTPUT and an iPhone is much better IMO.

I get he same issue already twice in 3 days !

 

[xixou]

See, it start at 12 KWh, wich is far too high

 

[IronLiver]

A customer of ours was reporting the same issue. He does not have a remote display but was getting impossible daily generation figures of 7.5kW by 08.15am etc. plus inconsistencies between weekly totals and the generation meter. Riased issue with Power One UK, they put me on to technical who confirmed that some older models installed around 6 months ago have a problem with the total generation amounts. They will arrange for a technician to visit the site and upgrade the firmware on completion of an online form. They emailed the link straight over and asked me to pass on to the client to complete.

Will let you know how quickly they organise the site visit but I was impressed by their customer service (unlike my experience with SMA :thumbs_down

Cheers

Monty

 

[xixou]

A customer of ours was reporting the same issue. He does not have a remote display but was getting impossible daily generation figures of 7.5kW by 08.15am etc. plus inconsistencies between weekly totals and the generation meter. Riased issue with Power One UK, they put me on to technical who confirmed that some older models installed around 6 months ago have a problem with the total generation amounts. They will arrange for a technician to visit the site and upgrade the firmware on completion of an online form. They emailed the link straight over and asked me to pass on to the client to complete.

Will let you know how quickly they organise the site visit but I was impressed by their customer service (unlike my experience with SMA :thumbs_down

Cheers

Monty

Same problem Today.

 

[xixou]

with the bug:
aurora bug - YouTube

without the bug:
Sans titre - YouTube

 

[xixou]

i contacted the power one support and they asked me to fill an excel sheet with details.
They have upgraded the firmware using their laptop. So far do good.

 

[jonesmabel]

I have a pair of the same inverters and one of them started to display the daily generation error a couple of weeks ago. I contacted the installer (a large company) they say they have not heard of the problem! The inverters were installed in the early part of 2012.
Does anybody have a contact at power-one or a link to the online form to report the problem.

Many thanks
Jonesmabel

 

[pvman]

Power one support on 08000 232341

This is a know problem

Tom

 

[liquidity]

Power one support on 08000 232341

This is a know problem

Tom

What does the solution entail?

 

[Gavin A]

What does the solution entail?

a loooooooooong wait, followed by another looooooooong wait, then still nothing.


maybe those registering the issue now will have less time to wait until they manage to produce a solution though.

 

[Energetic]

Still waiting here... They said before xmas... must be imminent... What happened to your anti-forum software Gav?

 

[Gavin A]

25 minutes a day limit up to 11pm

look - I made myself a whole new web page today instead of posting on forums... our new high efficiency range

 

[Energetic]

It's looking good...

 

[Worcester]

@jonesmabel, if you've still got a problem, call us we're just down the road ...

 

[Fitstart]

Has anyone heard any news on whether Power-One have a fix for this problem yet?

 

[Gavin A]

Install this firmware update

10 Bury head in sand
20 hope it all goes away
30 hope everyone stops pestering us
40 scratch head
50 announce that a cure to the problem is just weeks away
60 Go to 10

(ok, I appear to have forgotten all Basic coding skills)

 

[jonesmabel]

Thanks Gavin A for the suggestion to ....Install this firmware update

However I am not too clear as to which firmware you might be referring

jonesmabel

 

[Gavin A]

that's the problem in a nutshell. nobody knows what firmware update is required, even Power-One, who appear to be stuck in the coding cycle I gave in that post.

Here's the installer version of that cycle.

10 Install system
20 find glitch in the data between the inverter and display unit
30 ring Power-One to report the problem
40 Install firmware update
50 find this only solves one part of the problem
60 ring power-one to be told ah yes this is a known fault, we're working on a fix for it and should have it sorted in the next few weeks, we'll put you on a list and get back to you
70 customer rings up to chase progress
80 installer rings power-one to be told we they'd set up a new way of reporting the fault so our customer isn't actually on that list, could we give them the details so they can be added to the new list and they're working on a fix and expect to be sending an engineer round in a few weeks time
90 2 months later customer rings to say they'd had no contact from power-one
100 installer rings power one to be told they thought they'd solved it but actually it didn't work, so they're working on another solution which should be ready in a few weeks
110 Go to 90

We now seem to be stuck in an eternal feedback loop between lines 90>110, and I suspect Power-One engineers are currently wibbling in the corner hoping everyone just forget's about the issue and stops using the remote display units / learns to live with the glitch.

It's all a bit embarrassing really.

 

[Fitstart]

I did get notification of a firmware update for the Aurora Desktop (the remote display) yesterday and have installed it.

Of course that doesn't fix the problem with the actual data glitch which the inverter is sending out and Aurora Communicator is processing and sending up to my site.

Yes, maybe they are hoping we all go away if they forget about it. Maybe time to put a complaint in higher up - letter to the CEO or something.

 

[jonesmabel]

that's the problem in a nutshell. nobody knows what firmware update is required, even Power-One, who appear to be stuck in the coding cycle I gave in that post............

"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." (Lou Holtz)

I guess I was not in a good mood when I first read your comment

My system was installed by JoJu and I am pushing them to push Power-One

 

[jonesmabel]

Has anybody heard anything from Power-One with a solution to this problem ?

 

[Gavin A]

they notified one of our customers that the problem was now fixed as they'd sent out an update, unfortunately I installed the update and it doesn't seem to have changed anything.

 

[SibertSolar]

I'm going to look into this and see what I can discover, will report back

 

[IronLiver]

After much badgering and general losing of tempers, Power One did eventually send out a replacement inverter to our customer as they did not have any engineers that they could send out to carry out the firmware update. It was a replacement for the 3.0 OUTD that was giving incorrect yield totals, so the error is not limited to just the 3.6 inverters. The dodgy one was then whisked away by a courier for destruction by controlled explosion!

 

[Gavin A]

update... the update apparently does work, but only for the readings from that point forward. Though the customer has reported that it now seems to be doing something else odd, but I'm not sure what.

 

[SibertSolar]

I think you're right about the update working Gavin, but that Field-Service resources are limited due to ongoing installation commitments. Here's the gist of the feedback I have received, probably pretty much along the lines of what you guys know already:

"...a relatively small qty of PVI units (mainly the 3.6 model) built in 2011 have a glitch that records as an impossible power reading, thus throwing out the energy total. It is frustrating for those who are closely analyzing the data but the core function of the inverter remains intact and the issue does not affect warranty at all. Our solution is to support a field upgrade in the near future. These inverters need a secure laptop and P1 Service Engineer to update..."

I'll try to find out if it's possible for ourselves and/or yourselves to perform the field update but I suspect it needs to fall under P1 Service Dept. remit.

 

[Gavin A]

the problem with that statement is that they emailed our customers directly with a firmware update for the display unit, and then emailed them to tell them that they were now closing their file because the problem was fixed.

and last I heard it there were at least 600 of these problems logged on their system, as they failed to rectify the problem after it was spotted in the first batch of inverters, despite telling us it had been fixed, this resulted in the problem going from only affecting a couple of hundred systems to over 600.

Why they insist on dealing direct with the customers rather than via the installers baffles me, it keeps us entirely out of the loop and peeves the customers off.

 

[SibertSolar]

Hmm, yes - they definitely should work through the installer base, rather than directly with end customers Gavin, would be a lot better I agree.