Immersion Heater - PV electricity

[Duplada]

Duplada, your attachments seem to have disappeared. Any chance you can repost them? Thanks.

Shaunb yes the diagrams are missing as you state. I have posted then again below.

regards Duplada

 

[echase]

There is another way to do this which is to just have the pump and a small 12V PV panel, no stats. Saves on mains power. When sunny the water is heating strongly and the pump runs. When half sunny it half runs to match the half heating. When no sun does not run. Need to match the panel with pump via resistors to move just the right amount of water.

I have this arrangement provided c/o a Solartwin solar thermal system that was already fitted.

May need fair sized panel to power that pump though.

To give finer control though one stat at top of tank would stop the running until water is nearly up to temperature.

 

[nmumbi]

EMMA vs Immersun.... I am looking at using the Immersun product, just as it seems to be priced fair compared to the EMMA unit... however after checking this Patent from EMMA.... Im not even sure if we are allowed to buy it as EMMA is stating: "No one else can now manufacture, sell or install any such devices in the UK without the authorisation of Cool Power Products" To be honest just this statement puts me off using EMMA... Am i reading this right that according to them no one is allowed to IMMERSUN? and if so we must have Coolpowers permission to install this? Would love to hear some thoughts on this.. As the Excess Power to immersion really makes a diffirence...

 

[old grouser]

I'm not an intellectual property expert, but my understanding of patent law is that a patent can only cover a design, not the idea behind it. So if the works in your box are a copy of the works in EMMA's (presumably patented) box, they have protection, whereas if the works in your box only do the same job as the works in their box, there is no patent protection. Obviously there are shades of grey about what constitutes a copy; but EMMA's claim to have some sort of legal authority over "any such device" sounds like an attempt to suggest that they own the whole idea (which is impossible). You might as well say that the Wright brothers owned the right to say whether anyone else could build a fixed wing aircraft. If I were a prospective manufacturer, I might be wise to run my design past a patent lawyer just in case my design was just like theirs: but as an installer, acting in good faith with a product available on the open market, you need have no worries. In the unlikely event of any legal action, it would be taken against the manufacturer, not the installer.

Incidentally, has anyone had anything to do with the Engensia Solar 24 box, which appears to do the same as Immersun, but cheaper still - and appears to have been developed on this forum?
OG

 

[echase]

Incidentally, has anyone had anything to do with the Engensia Solar 24 box, which appears to do the same as Immersun, but cheaper still - and appears to have been developed on this forum?
OG

If you clear your PM box I can send you a PM

 

[Maurice Sauer]

Hi all. These recircculating pumping systems seem all very neat but by the time you've bought a decent pump, two thermostats etc the overall cost sneaks up appreciably. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience retrofitting a second immersion heater at the bottom of the tank? On reflection, shame but at a glance the central heating coils of a standard tank seem to sit too close to the bottom to fit a standard immersion anyway.

 

[inie meanie]

Hi all. These recircculating pumping systems seem all very neat but by the time you've bought a decent pump, two thermostats etc the overall cost sneaks up appreciably. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience retrofitting a second immersion heater at the bottom of the tank? On reflection, shame but at a glance the central heating coils of a standard tank seem to sit too close to the bottom to fit a standard immersion anyway.

That is the problem! Also I didn't fancy cutting the hole just in case I couldn't then get a proper seal. Remember that the Essex fittings for that size 2 1/4 inch also have a cost plus that of another heater and then you need to consider a contactor and thermostat to switch over between the two or you might just have a full tank of luke warm as opposed to a half tank of hot water which is useable.

 

[echase]

The longest top fitting immersion that fits is not inexpensive. Or if you live in a hard water area bite the bullet and change your tank for a taller or dual element one. It’s going to fail someday anyway due to the hard water.

 

[old grouser]

Sorry, Echase, private box now clear.
OG

 

[ms15342]

If you clear your PM box I can send you a PM

Please also send me details

 

[pmcalli]

The longest top fitting immersion that fits is not inexpensive. Or if you live in a hard water area bite the bullet and change your tank for a taller or dual element one. It’s going to fail someday anyway due to the hard water.

I changed mine from a 27 to a 36 which just clanged the coils while rotating during fitting but was clear when tightened up checked it with a fibre camera. however the temperature reached before cut out as measured by thermocouples every few inches up the tank hardly changed still at least I now had one of the newer ones with the extra safety stat.

 

[hobbsy]

echase,

Can you please also send me details - thanks.

 

[jsebright]

I am also keen on this system and have been "lurking" on this thread for several months waiting for the progress that now seems very close.
echase - can you please send me details if this is available to buy.

I have also wondered about how to best use the hot water this generates, and was thinking about putting a thermostatic mixer valve in to the feed for the dishwasher and washing machine (both cold feed only), to give them warm water at about 30-40C. Thinking that this will reduce the amount of electricity they use in heating up water, which will mean they draw less from the grid, and leave more to heat up water...

 

[methley]

This is exactly what I've done. The washing machine runs off a 30 degree feed off a short pipe run from the cylinder. Dogs have a nice warm outside tap for washes too!

 

[jsebright]

Hot (OK warm) tap outside - very extravagant, what a great idea!

 

[suntrap]

I have also wondered about how to best use the hot water this generates, and was thinking about putting a thermostatic mixer valve in to the feed for the dishwasher and washing machine (both cold feed only), to give them warm water at about 30-40C.

I think they work best when they start with cold water, which washes certain foods off before they "bake" on.

 

[Worcester]

@OldGrouser from what I recall (can't find it now on the Engensa site), their Solar 24 IS an ImmerSUN, - by the way an install shouldn't be 'from £600 plus VAT' - that's a rip off.

 

[Maurice Sauer]

Hi. I have been slowly pulling together the kit for the simple 12v circulating pump system described by Duplada, all at reasonable cost. Over some months I've drawn a blank on the 12v KSD9700 60 NO thermostat though - my only outstanding item. The NC variant seems readilly available from e.g. ebay. Anyone got ideas on sourcing KSD9700 60 NO (preferably with metal casing) or a alternative?
thanks
Mo

 

[inie meanie]

Hi Maurice
I bought some of the stats that you are looking at and I can say that on test they do have quite a large hysteresis. I tried them and then switched to a bulb type , which I also found on ebay. The pump I used is DC 12V Electric Centrifugal Water Pump 103 GPH (P-38I) | eBay it has been working really well all year now. Have a look at some of my earlier entries.
Meanie

 

[Duplada]

Hi Maurice,

When I purchased my KSD9700 NC/NO switches from eBay, I looked for a seller who listed a NC version and then asked them if they also had a NO version. I suggest you do the same. Search for a seller chinaeproducts (they don't have any listed at the moment) send them an email and tell them what you want, this is where I purchased mine.

Alternatively you could use these, search on ebay for KSD301 60 these switches have better hysteresis than the KDS9700. The KDS9700 switch at 60 +/- 5 degrees and reset at 40 +/- 10 Degrees. The KSD301 switch at 60 +/- 3 Degrees and reset at 45 +/- 5 Degrees. The KSD301 also have two lugs which you can use to secure to the tank with elastic.

Hope this helps.

regards Duplada