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If a like for like change is done but it's not in compliance with the new regs is a risk assessment always required?

Also where does the "like for like" terminology come from?
 

telectrix

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Arms Access
that is not like for like. a RCBO is not "like " a MCB., even though it might fit in the same hole. a full test of the circuit and a MWC should be carried out. but i can't see the need for a RA. unless you have H&S numpties aboard.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
This is a hypothetical example.

A lighting circuit with no rcd protection. The mcb needs changing for the reason specified by telectrix. Now does it need either an rcd or a risk assessment or can that be skipped.
 

telectrix

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Arms Access
as i said. a MWC completed for the altered circuit. why a RA? is your company run by snowflakes?
 

Zdb

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Replacing an MCB with another MCB of the same type/rating is like for like. Replacing it with an RCBO is not.

I would definitely do a MEIW certificate and perform all of the tests if replacing an MCB with an RCBO.

Some people would even do a full EIC but I think that's OTT IMO.
 

telectrix

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Arms Access
threasd going round in circles. where's buzz when youneed him?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
as i said. a MWC completed for the altered circuit. why a RA? is your company run by snowflakes?
The company is ran by curious people.

18th edition ads is not met without rcd I think because of Reg 411.3.4.

Mwc says departures may have a risk assessment "where applicable".

I want to know if this is applicable
 
D

Deleted member 26818

As far as I am aware, the requirement for a Risk Assessment when omitting RCD protection, is in relation to socket-outlets intended to be used for specific items of equipment.
The term ‘like for like’ is not used within BS7671.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
S
As far as I am aware, the requirement for a Risk Assessment when omitting RCD protection, is in relation to socket-outlets intended to be used for specific items of equipment.
The term ‘like for like’ is not used within BS7671.
Someone just informed me that "like for like" is a part p term.

The requirement for ra for socket not rcd protected is specified but I'm talking about MWC which requires one where "applicable"
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Yes I did just inform you.
There is one instance of the term in Approved Document Part P.
Yes you need to attach a documented Risk Assessment to the MEIWC if you are installing a socket-outlet without RCD protection.
If you are not installing a socket-outlet, then it’s not applicable.
 

westward10

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Staff member
TA
Arms Access
A risk assessment is for departures from BS7671, see Regulations 120.3, 133.1.3 and 133.5 for such instances where this may be applicable. The risk assessment must prove that any departures do not affect the safety of the installation and persons using the installation and only apply to alterations and extensions to the circuit.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
A risk assessment is for departures from BS7671, see Regulations 120.3, 133.1.3 and 133.5 for such instances where this may be applicable. The risk assessment must prove that any departures do not affect the safety of the installation and persons using the installation and only apply to alterations and extensions to the circuit.
Thanks
 

Wilko

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Arms Access
I believe we are ok to maintain an installation without triggering a requirement to upgrade to current regulations or carry out risk assessment. Change a lamp, replace a broken outlet, replace a broken MCB etc.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Regulation 411.3.3 is the only instance where there is a requirement for a documented Risk Assessment in BS7671.
There are other Regulations where a Risk Assessment is required, but there is no requirement for the Risk Assessment to be documented in those instances.
 

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